I wanted to know if somebody could explain in somewhat simple terms how I could get
started with comet. I am on a shared host environment.
What exactly are my possibillity's?
From what I have read here sofar, is that php is not the best option., because it is
run as a one process per request instead off thread.
On another, they talk about sockets.
I have also read about facebook and that they run there own comet server written in erlang, but they still have a php website. So how exactly does that work then?
I have read alot off stuff now, but it is still a bit vague on what is actually possible
in my situation. Running a php script that is a client off a comet server?? That is not saying how it keeps a longlasting open connection! (just throwing in some comments from other posts)
thanks, Richard
You can use PHP to reproduce the Comet behavior. Like you said PHP isn't the best choice because of a lot of memory management issues that are still widely there.
However for small scale purposes (low-traffic) PHP will work just fine.
There's a lot of information on the web about Comet and how to use it with languages such as Python or Erlang (especially good because of its optimal concurrency behavior, but frankly I don't know much about it).
If you want to try out Python there's a good question/answer on SO:
Python Comet Server
A simple solution is to find a SaaS comet provider, such as the one we host at Frozen Mountain, WebSync On-Demand. Basically, it'll let you use our servers (running WebSync + IIS) to handle the long lived connections, but allow you to publish your messages via PHP, and pre-process your messages in PHP. If you're going to have < 10 simultaneous users, it's free, so for a small site it should do exactly what you need.
Related
I have a fairly big web application build with SproutCore and PHP as backend. What I want now is to use websockets to update my client application in real time.
From what I know, PHP is really bad to handle persistent connections. So I've been thinking that I could use Go to handle the websockets connections and call my PHP scripts each time a request is received (this package seem to make it possible).
So my first question is, do you guys think it's a good idea (and a viable idea, I haven't been able to find people doing so) or should I stick with PHP ?
If I use Go to handle the websockets connections I've also been thinking that I could progressively move away from PHP to only use Go (since it is a lot faster than PHP). If I do that, I will have to be able to call some Go package from PHP. Can this be done with the PHP exec function ? Is there a better way ? And again, is that a good idea ?
Go is a natural fit for websocket servers. I've built websocket servers in Go and have been extremely happy with how it all worked out. I have one service handling 300k users a month on a Go websocket server and it barely uses 1% CPU of an Amazon AWS micro instance. Couldn't be happier.
Websockets really need event driven frameworks like Go and Node.js in order to maximize server resources. Forked web processes like PHP consume far more resources than an event driven framework.
If you need to call Go from PHP at some point, I suggest using API calls. Although exec would work too.
It is an old question, but my two cents on this subject...
There is a very good php library that does exactly what you are asking for - websockets. It is called Ratchet. I would not use node.js (over hyped) or go when php can do exactly the same thing and it is the language that I am most comfortable with. In majority of cases, little gain in performance over websockets is not worth switching stack.
Other useful links if you plan on using Ratchet:
Backend - Ratchet Examples
Frontend - Autobahn WS
I've been "recruited" so to speak to help work on a web project that is currently written in PHP with an Apache server. We would like to integrate a real-time (or at least something very close to it) chat feature. Scalability is a definite concern, and this type of work is definitely not my typical.
Everything I've read about creating such a chat feature requires the use of "long-polling" so the servers don't get rapidly overloaded and, well, crash. PHP and Apache are not conducive to implementing such a feature, so I've explored some alternatives, like Twisted Python for example.
The website has roughly ~7,000 lines of PHP (i.e., it'd pretty difficult to just straight switch languages for the entire thing), so my question is how can I manage this situation as far as trying to integrate python and setting up a separate server? Or, is this a very bad way to do this? Are there other alternatives that would be better suited? (Sadly many of the PHP Comet, or even AJAX, solutions I've found don't scale in the slightest. Note, the Apache server is not necessarily required; however, any server used must work with PHP and Python etc, short of having separate servers.)
Thanks for the help!
I would use Tornado on the server to write the chat application. Client server communication can then be over websockets. If you use SockJS on the client side you can also support older browsers via long polling. There are plenty of example chat clients written using Tornado. It's very simple to get started and it is wonderfully scalable. A chat server like this can be serving thousands of clients without showing any appreciable CPU activity.
This is an example, possibly a bit over engineered https://github.com/diggidanne/websocket-chat/blob/master/server.py
I have been in search of making live websites by using PHP. (COMET) I have been searching for a very long time already. (around a month) I have even checked some PHP chat scripts and used on my webserver, but I had some problems on most of them. (will be explained)
So far, most of the people tells the same thing: PHP isn't the best language could be used with COMET. The chat/comet examples are hacky at best.
I am asking this because, I want to have some features on my websites, like allow logged in people to chat with each other. That is where I need an alive connection to PHP pages. I am also planning on making a browser based game, and an alive connection will still be a must!
AJAX was a rare thing 2 years ago, shined with Facebook. Now pretty much everyone uses it, and it became a standard on web development. Now, the COMET based websites are growing. Youtube, Google+, Facebook, EA's Battlelog and such. I believe I should learn how to use it.
Okay, here are my questions. (Some of the information at below are the ones I gathered while searching on Google. Not sure if they're correct or not.)
Some languages like Python have special web servers designed for this job. I believe one of them is called Tornado Web Server. Developed and configured to simulate thousands of alive connections. I believe there is no such option in Appserv, but some people told NGINX can handle it with a decent configuration. Is it true? What configurations should be made? Is there any PHP web servers for this job?
Some of the most suggested things are:
a. Using APE.
b. Using Socket.IO
c. Node.js
Is there any way we can use them with PHP? Which one is the most promising? Could you give some guidance on them? Is there anything else than these?
I have used a comet chat script. Basically, you kept querying database and output the result with flush() to browser by sleeping it with usleep() in a loop. (This one became hard to understand so I will provide a quick code)
while(true)
{
// query database
// output the result
// flush the browser
// sleep for few seconds to lower cpu load
}
usleep() function basically destroyed my web server on Windows based operating systems. Is it normal to rely on usleep() on comet applications which runs on windows based OS? I mean, is there even a way to "sleep" PHP scripts? No matter what I do, CPU load goes to %100 on both WIN and UNIX servers.
Is PHP "really" that weak on this area? Should I give up with PHP and focus on other languages? If so, which language would you suggest? (That language should be promising. For example, there is no much use of AS3 after HTML5 addition, and AS3 is more likely to die soon while JS shines.)
What is WebSync? Can it be used with PHP?
Please bear in mind that I need to use COMET to make following applications:
A chat script, where logged in players will be able to chat eachother.
A browser based game. I already use JSON/AJAX and things like that when coding, but to receive opponents steps, I should pull the data, so an alive connection is needed. (Don't imagine advanced games, I am speaking about games like chess at best.)
I would appreciate if you can give me a short guidance. After all, I have been getting confused day by day since there are SO MANY random articles on internet. People even call setInterval() as COMET, so it is a complete mess.
There needs to be some clarification here. What you're looking for is not language specific per se. If you wanted to achieve the comet functionality with PHP you'd be relying on the Web Server (e.g Apache) to do the HTTP streaming. Also you need to understand that this is not supported in HTTP versions prior to HTTP/1.1. With that said, if you want to have a non-blocking event based web server, you're better off looking at Tornado and Node as suggested.
Comet is a programming technique that enables web servers to send data to the client without having any need for the client to request it This technique will produce more responsive applications than classic AJAX The user must create a request (for example by clicking on a link) or a periodic AJAX request must happen in order to get new data fro the server.
but it's create lots of traffic on your web server. If you want to build chat application in PHP use pusher which is a third party service and easy to use.
here is a link for pusher https://pusher.com/tutorials/realtime_chat_widget
the second suggestion is use ratchet for creating a chat application.
here is link for ratchet http://socketo.me/docs/hello-world
i hope it will help you
Only yesterday, I was asking a friend of mine how he would go about emulating direct communication channels between two clients through a web server, for the purpose of creating a chat application, but by using solely PHP/MySQL/JavaScript.
He told me that the best way to do this was by the use of SOCKETS, a term I had only heard of until then. This morning I started looking into it for the purpose of creating my chat application, but I'm quickly starting to believe that it's not as easy as I'd hoped.
So my question is this: if I don't have access to my own server (I have a domain hosted on a shared server that I also use for testing purposes), can I still use sockets to achieve my goal? If so, how exactly? (Please understand that I am completely new to the idea)
If not, what other way is there to accomplish the communication channels?
My only idea so far is to simply send periodic requests (AJAX) to the web server the application would be stored on and request any new messages, if any. But this does not seem very feasible.
Thanks in advance for your help!
I think what your friend is trying to get to is implementing Comet for your chat site.
Assuming he's getting you to use PHP sockets to act as a daemon, I highly doubt a shared hosting provider will let you do it.
You could try hanging the PHP script until there's data available. However, this will quickly consume resources on a CGI-based server since the PHP server can't tell if the client is still connected. I know this from experience.
For these kind of things, I highly recommend you get a dedicated server or VPS and write your backend in something like socket.io which automagically handles all your communication problems on both the client and server side. PHP, MYSQL and servers that fork to serve requests are usually the worst case scenarios for implementing Comet since they incur quite a bit of overhead and aren't scalable.
If you can't afford to run your own Comet server, then polling may be your only option. This will be the most resource intensive and least responsive.
Is there a real solution for COMET AND PHP combination? Basically, I've come to a point that I need to update a user home page periodically whenever there is new data in the database. As far as I understand, I need to open a persistent connection between my server and my clients browsers to update the contents of their home page as soon as new info. available without dedicating a lot of resources but I had no luck finding anything clear about this issue. I read many articles suggests that PHP is not a good language to implement COMET. My web application is completely programmed in PHP and I don't want to learn another language but if I'm forced to, Would you suggest a good language to start with? Do you think that I can program an interface just to handle this issue?
Thanks in advance.
The times I've heard people say that PHP was not well suited for COMET (like you said yourself) was because of the way webservers and PHP work -- mostly, because there is one process per page, which means if you want 200 users connected to your server, you'll need 200 processes (which can quickly become a problem for a couple of hundred more users).
Maybe a solution to that problem would be to use nginx_http_push_module ?
I've not tried it (yet ?), but it might be just what we need...
I was working on a school project and ran into the exact same problem. Because each PHP process has so much memory overhead, it's impossible to support to many connections per box. It was at this point I decided to switch to using BOSH and XMPP. This is a rather new "wave" of technology but there is already quite a few libraries to help you on your way. I would suggest using Strophe and XMPPHP. Then your clients can connect to a BOSH server (I'm using Openfire) and that can scale to thousands of active connections per server.
You don't have to learn a new language to implement such a feature.
For example, you could use Quercus (Java implementation of PHP) and implement a server Comet application using the JVMs memory management model.
There are solutions you need:
almost COMET solution (uses php and one file written with perl):
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://dklab.ru/lib/dklab_multiplexor/&sl=ru&tl=en
exact COMET solution in php (this is what you want, I think):
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://dklab.ru/lib/dklab_realplexor/
You would first need to understand what is a comet application like. The concept involved in building a comet application are explained at wiki at Comet (programming)
What you need to understand is that you can use any programming language to build a comet application as long as it follows the concepts explained at wiki
1.Ajax with long polling
2.Streaming
You can check some sample code at Simple “Long Polling” example code
Now coming to the problems -
1.You use ajax long polling then the browser(ajax request) would keep polling the server for data. This may eat up memory on the server or slow down the browser after some time.
Few Suggestions
JQuery PeriodicalUpdater (AJAX long polling/server polling)
Handling Long Polling
RobertFischer / JQuery-PeriodicalUpdater
What you need to check to implement this -
a) How often do you expect data to be updated on the server.
b) How much time the server side script would run to check, fetch and process data before sending it to the client side.
2.You can implement streaming by using the following -
How to implement COMET with PHP
Lightstreamer Dojo
Dojo Charting + Lightstreamer Comet Demo
Demo
Ajax Push Engine or The APE Project
What you need to check for this -
a) Will your hosting provider allow you to install these on hosting servers
b) Your RAM and Bandwidth utilization (You will need a dedicated server with package that gives you lots of RAM and Bandwidth)
It depends on what and how your requirements are. You will have to analyze and approach.
If what you are implementing is a small application you can go for Ajax Long polling given the fact that you analyzed and handled the negatives of this approach.
If you have a large application you can go for steaming.
Ajax with long polling is a easy solution, there are plugins in jquery and any other major js framework to help you do this.
Node.js seems like a pretty sweet solution for stuff like this. (Still a little gamey for production but cool all the same). PHP is a horrible environment for stuff like this, you have to change the way the server interacts with requests because you are no longer immediately responding. Python has a handful of servers like Twisted that are great for this because they let you be the server. No matter what language you write it in you've got to alter the typical request/response model. (Glassfish's Grizzly Comet server does this for Java as an example)
You should try Dmitry Koterov's Realplexor, which is a comet server, that provides Javascript and PHP APIs.
Readme.txt in english is provided in the package.