Best Language for Windows 2000-based Website - php

I've been contacted to see about updating an old legacy web application that was built using ASP and Access. The server is running Windows 2000 Advanced Server and I believe IIS 5.0 (I am trying to get confirmation on that, but the company isn't technical so I highly doubt Apache is running on the server).
What languages would be viable for updating this web app on the above platform? I've never touched classic ASP much less done any web development work against Windows 2000/IIS 5. There are no plans on updating the server to anything new due to budget concerns.
I'm leaning at the moment to moving to an SQLite-based database (customer isn't too keen on installing MySQL at the moment but I'm still in planning stages and this is a relatively low-traffic website) but what language would I pair with that? Does ASP.NET work well under IIS 5? Does PHP perform worth anything under this kind of setup?

I have a similar situation, did it about a year ago, and ended up using asp.net 2.0.
Generally ok, but the machine is showing it's age, I usually need to get someone to give it the 3 fingered salute every month or so, and it blew a psu recently.
If it's only low volume, you might be able to install sql express, which will make your life a lot easier than something like SQLlite, as dotnet plays nicest with other MS stuff, and there is a lot of labour saving goodness built in.
You would also be able to use the access to sql migration tools if you use sql express.
Would also suggest that you look at something like subsonic or nhibernate, which will take care of a lot of the boring and error prone stuff for you.
It really depends on where your experience lies, and how big the project is, if you've never used dotnet before, then start on something small, this may or may not be the one.
Apparently php performs well on win 2008, but as for 2000, never tried. Did have apache on a 2k box many years ago, but wasn't using php.

If the company is concerned with cost, I would be very conservative making changes. Concentrate on why they want to update- do they want to add new functionality? What are their mid-to-long term plans for the site? Are they having trouble maintaining the site? Going to a custom .NET solution may only complicate things further unless they are willing to make some ongoing investment in development.
If it's a relatively simple site, they may want to consider a platform like DotNetNuke. There are hosts out there that sell ready-to-configure sites that can do quite a lot with a minimum of configuration. That combined with a profressionally developed DotNetNuke UI template (TemplateMonster.com offers them) may be a good solution.
If they do want to go with a custom solution, ASP.NET runs fine on IIS 5.0. I believe you can run the .NET Framework up to at least 2.0, not sure about 3.0 or 3.5. Language won't make a difference to functionality, so C# or VB.NET are fine, all things being equal.

In this scenario, I would probably go with ASP.NET. Since you're running on a microsoft server, there will be plenty of documentation from MS on installing, configuring, and running the site. It's a lot easier to support something when all the components are "in the same family" so to speak. Asp.net will run fine under IIS 5. It doesn't have a lot of the security and scalability upgrades that IIS 6 does, but it will do the trick.

I was able to get a bit more information. The box is running IIS 5.0 and the IT guy handling it is more than happy to let me install whatever I need. From googling and responses below it seems like my best bet will be to convert the site to ASP.NET 2.0 with SQL Server Express 2005 running as the DB.

Related

A tip for PHP & ASP on IIS

I'm developing a website with Classic ASP (yeah, I know it's 2017!) and I have a pretty heavy script that has many db writes and reads while it runs.
(Basically, it's a web based soccer game, and that heavy script is the match engine that simulates the match events while the game actually occurs minute-by-minute, while 1 minute ingame = every 20 seconds in reality).
I'm working with Windows 2016 Server on a VPS Server with 8GB RAM, using MySQL.
I already have a version of this running, an old one, and now I'm developing a better one, much more functional.
I thought about developing that engine with PHP, mainly because it's gonna be easier for my purpose since it partially supports OOP, and that's a huge advantage here, as it makes it much easier to store and access data.
How would you recommend to do that?
From your experience, what's the best way to run PHP on IIS? (I know there are some kind of plugins that do that)
And, what else should I take in account?
Thank you for your time!
Yes, you can run PHP on IIS.
http://php.iis.net/
As per my understanding you can also try Zend Server community edition.
http://www.zend.com/en/products/server-ce/
It's free, it's reliable, good performance, and it has a web-based admin console.

Thoughts on converting PHP app to ROR for use with Heroku?

I'm in the process of building a rather big web application with PHP + Codeigniter. When I first began this project I was excited by the hosting provider PHPFog product of PHP-as-a-service. The idea of simply developing my application and not having to worry about server maintenance, setup, securing, etc appealed to me.
However, I've had far too many issues with PHPFog to be comfortable trusting it with hosting my application. I've run into situations where I've deleted a file from my git repository, pushed it to my remote repo at phpfog, and wound up with the file not actually being removed on one or all of my application servers. The service is also supposed to provide newrelic for application monitoring however this only worked briefly and hasn't worked at all since August 10th despite numerous complaints. And their customer service is far from satisfactory in helping solve all of these problems.
So now I'm considering alternatives, and Heroku has caught my attention. Heroku seems like a much more mature cloud application platform. However it does not provide PHP hosting. Instead it provides ROR, Java, Node.js, and Clojure.
How difficult would it be for someone with a lot of experience in PHP (and the Codeigniter framework) to learn Ruby + Rails and rebuild an application? Both organize code in the MVC pattern, so I hope that means my views would only require modification of their hooks to match ruby's syntax. I've already designed my database and all of the SQL queries to access the data I need from my models in CI. What do you guys think?
EDIT 1:
So I've watched this video as an introduction to ROR development:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzj723LkRJY
And my initial reaction is 'So ROR is like a coloring book?' I'm skeptical when I see huge chunks of an application come together via something as simple 'scaffolding.' I don't know what to think other than I'm afraid that ROR sacrifices some of the granularity/control I'm used to with php
EDIT 2:
I've recently discovered https://cloudcontrol.com/ They appear to offer the same type of hosting with PHP-as-a-service that PHPFog offers but with more control, such as the ability to directly access your database and auto-scaling. Still the great idea of a git-push to deploy to multiple servers without having to deal with setting them up manually. The only thing I dislike is that their datacenters are based in Ireland (Amazon AWS). However they told me that they're planning on moving to the US in the next 3 months and offering pricing in USD.
While yes they both are MVC, yes both Ruby and PHP are scripting languages, and yes you shouldn't require much modification to your views other than changing the php hooks to ruby hooks, I think you are fooling yourself if you think it is just an easy conversion.
Ruby as a language is IMO far superior to PHP. It allows you to do so much more with so much less code. If you were to convert your PHP code to Ruby code by replacing each call with its equivalent, you wouldn't be doing it the Ruby way.
On top of that, Rails as a framework is far more mature and powerful than CodeIgniter. It will provide you far greater flexibility and convention-based help that you will code things a lot differently than if you were using CI.
Added to that, you will want to use ActiveRecord as your ORM and should write database migrations to create your database, so all those SQL scripts you have written will be pretty much useless.
If you decide that porting your app to RoR is the way to go, then I wholeheartedly encourage you to take some time and learn Ruby and Rails, and then rewrite your application as if you were doing a Rails app from scratch. You'll be amazed at how quickly you can get a project up and running.
Before this question turns into the typical Ruby vs PHP discussion, and before you embark on an (almost) impossible task, you should consider other hosting providers. There are many to choose from, some of whom offer this "PHP as a service" you're looking for.
http://vps.net/
http://mediatemple.net/
http://rackspace.com/
Please realize that porting a PHP application to ROR or Ruby is not an easy task. You may as well start again (in a language you know little about, no doubt). You shouldn't base your programming language on bad hosting experience or whatever that guy said. Use what you're comfortable with.
This one is a must read for you
http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html

Apache, mod_*, PHP, Perl, Python, Ruby; Learning backwards

I started web development some time ago, but have invested essentially all my time in learning PHP, MySQL/SQLite, (X)HTML/XML (XPath, XQuery, XSL), etc. I went with an out-of-the-box XAMPP install, everything was pretty straightforward, and I could focus my learning on languages.
Now, however, I'm looking to learn Ruby and Python (and more Perl) but to my dismay, have discovered that I know essentially nothing about Apache configuration, or any related tasks associated with setting up an environment for embedded PHP, Perl, Python and Ruby.
I posted recently a question that I thought would take me in the correct direction. Having read the mod_wsgi and mod_rails docs, I'm more confused than I was to start.
I'm running Windows 7 x64 with an existing XAMPP installation, just grabbed Ruby and Python, just installed NetBeans; and I'm wondering:
Should I start with a fresh Apache install, or is XAMPP fine to pile additional modules on?
Where can I find some information about configuring Apache to support these modules? I'm thinking step-by-step to build an environment that supports some of, all of, or more than the aforementioned languages.
I suppose my question can be summarized to; What are some suggested reading/learning resources for configuring an Apache based multi-language web application development environment?
I hope this question isn't regarded with high subjectivity or generality; I'm just lost and don't want to waste time staring blankly at configuration files or the like.
I really appreciate any insight, and forgive my noob factor. I am surprised I am as unfamiliar with this territory as I am, and quickly need to change that.
I would recommend the following:
Make your home in the Ubuntu environment within the VM you mentioned
Essentially all of the technologies you mentioned started out in Unix-based systems, and, while the playing field is leveling, there are still significant advantages to developing with these technologies in a Unix-based OS (such as the Ubuntu install you mentioned.)
Additionally, Ubuntu is very well documented online, has active forums, and has very nice install systems (apt-get, aptitude.)
Learn Nano
You can use other IDE's or text editors, but Nano is really, really easy to use, so you can focus on learning the technologies you're interested in, not a complex text editor such as vim or emacs (which are both fantastic, but learning sessions in and of themselves.)
Get yourself a cheap cloud server to pound on
Many companies offer great cloud servers. The nice thing about this is that you can play with the every aspect of the environment, including the networking capabilities, such as getting a firewall running, etc.
For instance, Rackspace Cloud Servers work great and the Wiki pages walk you through a vast number of installs and configurations (I just pointed you to the Ubuntu docs cuz that's what you mentioned already running):
Rackspace Cloud Server Wiki
Build up your web server from scratch (and keep a log of the build steps, so if something doesn't go well, you could redo things quickly.)
Start building (and breaking) your next great app
Start making a cool app using the technology of choice. If you want to focus on Ruby next, crank out an ROR app, or even dig down and use RACK to set up you're own baby framework for handling web requests:
Rack: a Ruby Webserver Interface
Or, if python is your next learning project, try out Django, or even jump down to CherryPy for a low level web server implementation that helps you see all the moving parts:
CherryPy
Join the mailing lists of the technologies you're most interested in
Mailing lists provide great insights into the strengths and weaknesses of technologies. Just joining a list to listen to the daily banter can significantly help your understanding of the technology and the challenges that you'll likely face in the future.
These are all things I've done (different language focuses, but same techniques) and they've helped me greatly. Hopefully, they help you, too :) Happy coding!
Just an additional info, XAMPP has mod_perl included since version 1.7.2.
To setup this quickly on Windows, already prepared stacks built by BitNami can help:
Ruby + Rails
Python + Django

Should I build my site using ASP.NET to leverage my C# knowledge or should I learn PHP and use that because of the cost?

I'm a C# programmer and I love the language. I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. Recently I have become real interested in creating a website that offers jobs and allows companies to post jobs for people to navigate through.
This is going to be a nationwide site only, no international connections.
I'm somewhat familiar with ASP.NET (I've used it before for a much smaller pet project) but I wouldn't say I'm more than a
Newb - Journeyman - Novice -
Experienced - Expert
I have absolutely zero experience hosting a website or even registering a domain. I'm familiar with HTML and making applications in XAML for WPF has given me a much easier time understand things that laid out in markup.
Is ASP.NET hosting expensive? Is PHP cheaper? I just need a little guidance. :)
Should I use ASP.NET or PHP?
I'm a PHP programmer and love the language, but with your background, I would absolutely say ASP.NET. PHP hosting tends to be cheaper and more available overall because it's usually Linux based and thus comes with no License fees, but there are good and affordable hosting options for Windows/ASP, too. And who cares if you pay a few dollars more, what you save in man hours will easily be worth it.
Don't forget that PHP usually runs on a LAMP stack, so for anything a bit bigger you will need to gain at least some knowledge of the conventions and quirks of the Linux world, Apache, and maybe MYSQL, too. If you're looking to broaden your horizon, that's certainly a great way to learn new stuff. If you want to get a job done, I'd say stick with what you know.
PHP is cheaper than ASP.Net, specially if you need multiple boxes (servers).
However I would say go with ASP.Net, you'll have less trouble than trying to pick up on PHP.
I have built a website in Drupal. I'm a C# noob and I would have wanted to build the site from the ground but I am not really familiar with security architecture and stuff. If you want to hone your skills in C# and ASP.NET, I'd say go for it. Registering a domain is basic. Building a website in a hosted environment is a good exercise.
Do not worry much about how much you will spend on this project (Host expenses, domain registration, etc). Just think that this goes to your professional portfolio. You can reference this as a tech work. Plus the experience in developing and building the actual site is priceless.
Just curious, but have you thought about using Mono? It's very nice and capable. The newer versions are much easier to install get running properly than before.
I don't know if you plan on using a virtual host or dedicated host or what but the route I initially took was to go to serveraday.com and get a dedicated server and then install Mono and then install my ASP.NET apps. If you are patient you can get a dedicated server from serveraday.com for $200 to $250 a year if you prepay the full year in advance.
I had little to no problems with compatability. It was actually pretty amazing how well the apps worked when going from developed in Visual Studio to being run by Mono.
According to your experience in programming, I would suggest using .Net. It will be easier to come up with a product that looks nice. All this because ASP.Net already has themes and Visual Studio is very user friendly, if you use Microsoft tools. However, learning PHP will get you more into the roots of HTML, JavaScript, HTTP, etc. It will normally be more work than using .Net, but at the end it make you a better programmer.
One thing to consider beyond just hosting is the ability to find talent to help you work on your site.
This is completely anecdotal. I have no stats to back this up, but it always seems to me that there are more PHP developers out there than ASP.NET. My theory has been because of the lower learning costs of PHP. I recently had three experiences to confirm this:
1) A close friend of mine is a tech recruiter in San Diego. He posted a .NET job mid 2009 and couldn't find a single qualified bite for five months.
2) I consult for an early-stage startup. A year ago, they completely converted from ASP.NET to PHP because they simply couldn't find anyone to hire.
3) It's uncommon to find a .NET job on Craigslist where I am in Austin, however I've been watching a particular one for the later half of 2009. This was for an online retailer. They kept reposting this position every two weeks or so, and the pay was very average for this market. If I recall, they stopped around November/December, and I thought they finally filled the position. At the beginning of this month, they reposted the position, but this time it was for a PHP developer who was familiar with .NET technologies.
Again, take this for what it's worth. This is just my limited observations. People will say low barrier to entry = bad coders. I don't buy that. The worst app I've ever supported was a classic ASP app. Low barriers to entry just increases the size of the talent pool. You'll have more bad coders, but you'll also have more good coders, too.
I don't find ASP.NET hosting much more expensive. The hosting company I use even throws a MS SQL Server database (most places charge $10/month for MS SQL Server database) in for free and allows PHP hosting and .NET hosting in the same account.
Check them out. They are pretty good.
Reliable
I would go with what you rather program with. I prefer to use ASP.NET so the little bit of price difference is not worth it for me to switch to PHP.

Is the LAMP stack appropriate for Enterprise use?

Is the LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP / Ruby / Python) stack appropriate for Enterprise use?
To be clear, by "Enterprise", I mean a large or very large company, where security, robustness, availability of skill sets, Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), scalability, and availability of tools are key considerations. Said another way, a company that looks for external adoption of frameworks / architecture - Something ubiquitous will be seen as more "valid" than something exotic / esoteric in this kind of environment.
I've seen use cases where Oracle, IBM, and Sun have implemented systems on the LAMP stack for various Enterprises. I've also seen examples where websites like yellowpages.com (Ruby on rails) and Facebook (php) are built on it. However, none of these examples are exactly what I'm looking for.
I'm really trying to find examples where it is an Enterprise standard at a very large bank (I.e., Citigroup), Telecom company (I.e., AT&T), or manufacturer (I.e., Proctor and Gamble). Just to be clear, I'm not looking for an example where it's used in a limited sense (Like at JPMorgan Chase), but where it's a core platform for systems like CRM, manufacturing systems, or HR management, as well as for internal and external websites.
The perception I've seen so far is that applications built on the LAMP stack perform slower and are less flexible. Some of the arguments I've heard are:
Linux is seen as not as well supported as Unix, Solaris, or Windows Servers.
Apache is harder to configure and maintain than web servers like BEA WebLogic or IIS.
MySQL is a "not ready for prime time" DB for hobbyists, and not a competitor for SQL Server or Oracle (Although PostgreSQL seems to have a reputation for being more robust).
PHP / Ruby on rails are optimized for CRUD (Create, Read, Update and Delete operations). Although this is an advantage when building CRUD-intensive web aplications, both perform slower than Java/Java EE or C# (which are both common Enterprise standards). Furthermore, a lot of applications and systems (like manufacturing systems) have a lot of non-CRUD functionality that may be harder to build with PHP or Ruby, or even Python.
Can anyone please provide arguments to support or refute the idea of the LAMP stack being appropriate for the Enterprise?
Thanks!
KA
UPDATE: Some times the LAMP Stack is Appropriate for Enterprise Use: Externally-Facing Blogs
"but where it's a core platform for systems like CRM and HR, as well as for internal and external websites"
First, find a LAMP CRM or HR application.
Then find a customer for the LAMP CRM or HR application.
Sadly, there aren't a lot of examples of item 1. Therefore, your case is proven. It can't be used for enterprise applications because -- currently -- there aren't any of the applications you call "enterprise".
Your other points, however, are very interesting.
Linux is seen as not as well supported as Unix, Solaris, or Windows Servers. I think Red Hat would object strongly to this. Give them a call. I think they'll make a very persuasive sales pitch. Read their success stories.
Apache is harder to configure and maintain than web servers like BEA WebLogic or IIS. By whom? Apache web site managers? Or IIS web site managers? This is entirely subjective.
MySQL is a "not ready for prime time" DB. Take it up with Sun Microsystems. I think they'd object strongly to this. Give them a call. I think they'll make a very persuasive sales pitch. Read their success stories.
PHP / Ruby on rails are optimized for CRUD, and both are slowly performing. Could be true. Java and Python might be faster. PHP and Ruby aren't the last word in LAMP.
Something ubiquitous will be seen as more "valid" than something exotic / esoteric in this kind of environment.
Although I personally wouldn't recommend PHP due to the many flaws in the language, it's most certainly ubiquitous. With the advent of phusion passenger, Rails support amongst shared-hosting companies is growing pretty quickly too. I give it another year or 2 at most before 90+% of shared-hosting accounts support rails out of the box. If that's not ubiquitous, what is?
Linux is seen as not as well supported as Unix, Solaris, or Windows Servers.
If this bothers you, purchase support from RedHat, or install Solaris and purchase support from Sun. Both of those will give you just as good support as Microsoft is likely to
Apache is harder to configure and maintain than web servers like BEA WebLogic or IIS.
I can't speak for BEA WebLogic, but having configured both Apache, IIS, and Tomcat, Apache is the easiest both to understand, and to find examples and documentation for by a long way.
MySQL is a "not ready for prime time" DB for hobbyists, and not a competitor for SQL Server or Oracle.
Oh really?. You should make it your mission to tell NASA, Google, CERN, Reuters etc that they're all using a hobbyist database that isn't ready for prime-time.
PHP / Ruby on rails are optimized for CRUD, and both perform slower than Java/Java EE or C# (which are both common Enterprise standards).
There are 2 things here:
Optimized for CRUD - This is totally irrelevant.
Rails and some of the python/php frameworks are optimized for CRUD apps. Many of the C#/Java frameworks are also optimized for CRUD apps. However, if the app you're building is a CRUD app (and 99% of web applications are), isn't this a Good Thing?
If you're not building a CRUD app, there are plenty of non-crud-optimized frameworks in ruby/python/php/java/C#. Net win: Nobody (hence it's irrelevant)
Perform slower than Java/C# - This is undoubtedly true, but it also doesn't matter. For a low-traffic site the performance difference isn't going to amount to anything, and for a high-traffic site your bottleneck will be the database, whether it be MySQL, oracle, or whatever.
What you trade-off for all of this is development time.
Once you've used all this advice to convince your boss that you won't lose out on anything by using LAMP, If you crunch the numbers and show your them that it is going to take 6 man-months to build the site in Java, and only 3 to build it in ruby/python then that's really what it comes down to.
If you hire idiots to implement it, C++ & Oracle will fail to scale.
If you hire people who are smart and get things done, PHP & MySQL will scale just fine.
Same argument goes for security & robustness.
Facebook, Digg, portions of Yahoo run on PHP.
Of course, they hire lots of PhD programmers.
Just thought I'd add another website to the list of those that run on LAMP - Wikipedia. Seventh biggest website in the world, written entirely in PHP and runs off MySQL, and they only have two or three paid developers. Of course, they have some assistance from volunteers, but it's not a lot, and it's scaled just fine. Don't know if you'd really call them 'enterprise', but for such a huge and popular website they seem to have done alright for themselves.
Linux is seen as not as well supported
as Unix, Solaris, or Windows Servers.
As others have said above, give Red Hat a call and I'm sure they'll beg to differ. And the amount of support out there for Linux absolutely free is astonishing.
Apache is harder to configure and
maintain than web servers like BEA
WebLogic or IIS.
That depends who you're asking. People who usually administer IIS servers will probably view it this way. People who usually administer Apache won't. It depends on who you hire, and if your stack is LAMP you won't want to be hiring people with no Apache experience anyway.
I just want to add that I've witnessed many times that clients only feel comfortable once they dish out serious $$$ for some solution, even if it makes enterprise integration even harder, despite what arguments you bring to the table.
I think the first criteria should be your team's skill level, comfort level jut to make sure what ever platform decisions are made works well with them. Whatever you decide think of scalability and maintainability of your code. Tools are awesome no matter what stack you choose.
I personally would break it down into 3 stacks-
The Java Stack where you have Solaris or Enterprise Linux like ( RedHat ) with Weblogic/Websphere/Tomcat etc and Java Enterprise along with Hibernate,Spring etc technologies. Most would opt for Oracle as DB.
The Microsoft Stack with some Open Source if needed Win Server - IIS - .net/C# (ASP.net etc) - NHibernate, NUnit (unit testing) etc. Most likely you would want to use SQL Server as DB
None of the above stack with Enterprise Linux running a whole buffet of open source stuff like MySQL (now under Sun's domain so can be looked at seriously), Apache (there are apache gurus out there), Ruby ( not my personal choice)/ PHP (good luck) / Python (I like it because its a mature language). I would advocate python or ruby from the managing code point of view. Maybe for some it could be PHP..i am not into it.
strictly a subjective opinion but I personally find MySQL and to a lesser extent PHP to be a bit of a weakness, but certainly there's plenty of people who disagree and big companies who went LAMP.
I'd prefer to see postgres or even SQLite take chunks out of the MySQL market, and I'd like to see mono or jsp or cocoon based apps more. I guess LAMP is a bit too specific for an umbrella term. :)
Linux/Apache are hardened, lean and each comes with plenty of people(for the right price of course) who will provide support, plenty of useful tools, many at exceptionally high levels of utility which work with them and which have been built upon them.
Not sure about the other two, however. In particular MySQL seems to have taken a strange turn for the worse since their being acquired by Sun, contrary to the posts in this thread suggesting that Sun may be a good influence:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7gb8j/oops_we_did_it_again_mysql_51_released_as_ga_with/
The reason for not finding Enterprise applications built on LAMP is not because they aren't enterprise level but something entirely different in my opinion. A lot of the big players use LAMP or similar--Facebook and MySpace immediately come to mind. So its clearly not an issue of scale and perf.
That said, the reason I find that there aren't any enterprise apps built on LAMP is because of their intrinsic open nature. I don't want to build an actuarial module as a PHP file because anyone can steal the logic. On the other hand if I have a DLL I can retain control. You don't find a lot of 30-trial apps built on PHP for this very reason but it's much easier to achieve that kind of protection with say ASP.NET.
You have some real bad myths in your posting:
JavaEE Myths:
-App Servers easier to configure than apache, nope apache is easier.
-You imply that only JavaEE full solution is enterprise, nope.
CRUD Myths:
-CRUD is slower than JavaEE? WTF? POJO and EJB is using CRUD.
The limiting factor is not crud, its server throughput
There are 3 limiting bottleneck areas no matter what technology even MS..server implementation, persistence layer, and app layer..the technology chosen is not the speed factor as you can exchange advantages in one layer for disadvantages in the other layer.
Fro example we could spee dup Java by using document store instead of normal DB..
Most new Rails implementations use non apache servers that are faster by a factor of 3 to 5 than Apache..even a well tunned Apache server can outperform some javaEE stacks..just ask yahoo as they use Symfony on some of their properties..
I think you will find that many enterprises use Linux servers, often supported by Redhat, Novell or IBM, and that Apache is also commonly used.
But many enterprises tend to use databases like Oracle or IBM DB2 instead of open source offerings - although there are many enterprises that don't really need the kind of power those systems provide and could get away with MySQL or PostgreSQL.
And for the web-server language, I think you can use just about anything. However, if you use Apache it is probably easier to use PHP, Ruby or Python, whereas if you use IIS or Weblogic or Domino it will be easier to do it in Java / C#.
IMO there are no good general arguments against Linux and Apache; You can certainly get enterprise-level support for Linux if you're prepared to pay for it (and a good approximation of it for free if you're willing to play by the community's rules). And Apache is not that hard to configure unless you need its more complex features, which is unlikely in an application server.
You can certainly make a case against MySQL since some of the most important features in regard to data safety have been added only recently. If you're concerned about that, use PostgreSQL instead.
As for the language you write your app in: PHP has definitely proven to be able to run extremely large and complex systems; I'd be more concerned about maintainability than performance. And Ruby on Rails is "optimized for CRUD" only in asmuch as a simple CRUD webapp can be written in nearly no time (literally minutes), but that does not mean it is somehow less suited to more complex apps, just that it will take much more time (still less than with many other languages)
I suppose that large commercial CRM and HR applications might be biased toward delivering large commercial RDBMS products as the foundation for their products. If nothing else they will I'm sure prefer to unite against a common threat.
And they have a harder time justifying license and support fees if they integrate products that don't have them.
My 2c:
Linux: Since kernel 2.6 came out, I would say it is definitelly a high-quality OS. Version 2.4 wasn't quite there and 2.2 was a joke, but 2.6 is really good. Be careful with a choice of distribution, though. In my experience, RedHat/CentOS is very good, and apparently Debian (original, not Ubuntu!) can be set up nicely if you have a good admin. My experience with OpenSUSE was not very good.
Apache: Haven't used it, but I don't see why it would be a problem.
MySQL: This is the weakest point of the stack. I am not going to go into details here - look into comments at reddit.programming if you are interested. Better look at PostgreSQL.
PHP/Perl/Ruby/Python: I have worked with Perl and to a lesser extent with Python. They are probably OK for web-based applications where the bulk of the work is done by the web server and DBMS anyway. However, I do prefer static type system and would rather pick Java/C# for a business application and C++ for system programming.
I would like to suggest that we identify the scalability requirements of Enterprise systems and how they differ compared to Web Applications. Look at some of the most scalable systems like Wikipedia, Flickr, Wordpress, Facebook, MySpace and a host of others. You will see LAMP stack there. I am more of a Python fan (since I feel that the language has a cleaner feel) but I listen to experts like Cal Henderson (Flickr) who wrote a book on scalability talking about how he scaled a bank of MySQL servers.
What are the essential features of an enterprise system?
Support, availability of expertise, stability of the platform/language probably count.
But LAMP has other features like faster development, easier extensibility, lots of available libraries for reuse, several documented stories of scalability, maturing web frameworks.
Here are a couple of pointers to building Scalable systems (I am talking about Web Scale). I always wondered in the light of all this evidence, why the perception of LAMP as not being ready for Enterprise apps keep popping up.
As for Apache, every Netcraft study shows a very different adoption story. By the sheer number of servers, there may be more people with knowledge to configure, tune and extend the web server.
Scalable Web Architectures
Please Look at Market Share of all Servers Aug 1995 to Jan 2009
Linux is used a lot.
Apache and Tomcat are used a lot.
MySQL may be robust now. I'd use PostgreSQL instead. Banks will use Oracle, but there's good support for Java and Tomcat there.
PHP is used a lot, but many big companies would prefer Java.
You're best off arguing for a Linux, (possibly commercially supported version of) Tomcat, Java, Tomcat|Oracle|MSSQL solution, in my opinion.
You'll need a Linux sysadmin, especially as the number of servers ramps up, although I'm sure you can get a part time one in before that time arises. If the company already has Windows sysadmins then arguing for Linux is going to be tough.
I believe it's not that the technology is premature or something which keeps biggies like AT&T to go ahead with a full implementation at enterprise level. These companies have such a big budget for IT spends that the last thing they would have on mind is to spend more on the customization and enhancement required on the open source techs to suit their business needs.
So what they look for (which comes from my consulting experience) is buy and run product pack and don't have to spend more on the research and hack part. Companies which use open source build have developed their own support groups globally to cater to any support demands, which large enterprises are not much willing to do. They need thing done fast and for sure and they can pay.
There are two main issues for large enterprises using LAMP stacks:
TCO: taking into consideration that LAMP basically comes free, enterprises still achieve a lower total cost of operation with other commercial solutions
Supportability: enterprises have no problem paying the extra buck to get around-the-clock professional support from their commercial vendors
Redhat and IBM give full support for Linux, Sun bought MySQL, Yahoo uses Php, numerous companies use a LAMP stack, but many use parts.
I personally don't see Linux as being less well supported than the other OS mentioned; in fact hardware vendors typically DO support Linux over any other OS (except for Windows, which they do generally support quite well provided you use maintream distributions).
Provided you don't use a bizarre flavour (Tip: Just use RHEL or Centos which is its free equivalent), Linux is very well supported.
MySQL may have some shortcomings, but in my opinion it has many strengths; we use it at a large scale in ways not intended, but it still works quite well generally (most of the problems are due to our versions being out of date or badly configured).
What "P" stands for in LAMP is debatable. I feel that PHP is not enterprise-ready, because it has so many individual shortcomings (e.g. poor unicode handling, no namespaces, inconsistent APIs, inconsistent syntax, poor version backwards compatibility, duplicated/obsolete functionality) that they add up to making it difficult to implement a maintainable system.
But given an appropriately experienced team, even if you choose PHP it can be used to make an extremely high quality application.
If it's good enough for Google, trust me, it's good enough for you.

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