I'm trying to create an online dictionary (some rare languages) and need you suggestions.
My php, mysql and javascript knowledge though is far from excellent, but is enough to understand the code and make some changes to it. I've done some projects with Drupal before and now thinking about trying a php framework for this project, because I belive that php framework could be more flexible in this case. I don't have any experience with any frameworks. The project isn't commercial, more like a hobby.
So, the question is - Is it worth trying a php framework or should I stick with Drupal? Maybe, some other options?
Thank you.
Some people thinks that writing your own engine instead of using a CMS is not worth.
But if you use a framework, such as Zend Framework, Symfony, CakePHP, CodeIgniter, etc... you will be able to have a robust basic engine which could be extended to your needs, and get improved with time.
With time, you write your own library which you know, and, the most important, which fits to your specific needs.
So, try to find the tool before to write it, but write it you was not able to find it, or it was not adapted to your needs, or adapting it will you cost you extra times.
Think of the following things :
Is the template engine will let me able to design anything I want
Is the software enough modular to let me able to develop plugins or new modules
Is it worth to learn how to use it ?
Is it activly developed, and documentation is available ?
Will it cost me extra time to develop with it instead of writing it from the scratch and create my own library ?
And probably others things i forgot.
Since you mention PHP, why not consider Mediawiki (the engine behind Wikipedia) ?
There's always Wiktionary, if it's an open project that you're working on.
Related
So I'm about to start a big Property Management System for the cloud. This Hotel system already exists in VB.net technologies, and now we are porting the whole system to web.
We are trying to decide between ASP.net or PHP, we are thinking on PHP because ASP.net would cost too much on licensing and servers. So there is Laravel, Symphony, CodeIgniter, Zend, etc..
The thing is, this project is suppose to live for years to come. But we feel like getting constraint ed by using a PHP framework, because every time the framework gets updated then we need to update our whole system. For example.. now Laravel got updated from version 4 to 5. And the whole folder structure changed. I can't imagine having our big system needing to be updated and keep up to every Laravel version update. How do you keep up with this ?
Also, what would happened if Laravel disappears, its the trendy fashion now. But we see PHP frameworks come and go.
Would it be wiser not to use any php framework and building everything from scratch to have more control over it ?
You should first note that using a framework is primarily meant to solve two issues;
Force coding into a certain 'format'. Collaboratively working on code can generate 'hacked' solutions, or unmaintainable code. A framework can be the force which helps keep these things in check.
A framework comes with a certain core-code which handles for example database abstraction, routing, etc. which can save you a lot of time to develop yourself.
An extra thing to mention; when implementing new features, there is the possibility someone has built it before and maybe even better than you would have anticipated.
Keeping up with the framework should not be too hard, as long as you abide by the coding guidelines of the framework. With the bigger frameworks, new releases have (or after sometime generate) tutorials on how to port your previous version into the new version format.
Choosing which framework to use, is a question which is opinion-based and not suited to discuss here, but keep in mind that you choose your framework according to your needs. Also check how big the community is and how much 3rd party plugins/code exists (the more, the longer the framework will last).
Good luck!
You could see a framework as a base to start from. Remember that you get all the code! Look at the code. Do you like it? Does it fit your requirements? Using a framework gives you a huge advantage over making everything yourself from scratch.
But do you need to update? Would you update your own code constantly? Perhaps it's not always needed. Sure, if there is a security issue you should do something about it, but seeing every update to a framework as essential is just plain nonsense.
I build projects aimed at specific versions of frameworks and libraries. I try to build in flexibility so I can swap out frameworks and libraries, and versions, but I often find that I stick with what's working.
Some people might not like this, and argue you should always be on the latest version, but I find that completely impractical.
I'm about to develop a web app (PHP/MySQL). I prefer to use the MVC style when developing apps, but I've always struggled writing my own MVC framework in the past so I've started playing with CodeIgniter. After a couple of tutorials I better understand how to properly develop with a MVC framework and I'm totally comfortable using CodeIgniter to write my app.
The thing is I'm now wondering if its better to write my own MVC framework for this app or use CodeIgniter? My worries are due to the fact that I'm just getting this app written to serve as a prototype and will hand it off to more experienced developers down the road. I'm worried CodeIgniter has limitations that I'm unaware of yet and could hinder further development for me or the next developer(s). I'd imagine its easier to get around issues/limitations of a custom framework than it is of a 3rd party/ready made/stock framework.
Any insight?
There aren't any real limitations to CodeIgniter as most of the core can be extended. I have been using it for years and not found anything I couldn't use it for.
Kohana is a little more fun if you're into PHP5/OOP stuff but the lack of documentation will make learning it quickly rather difficult, especially if you are being paid to produce this.
Use CI, it will speed you up plenty.
I'd would go with CodeIgniter if you're familiar with it (and not writing your own framework from scratch), the app is a prototype, and it's getting handed off to more experienced developers down the line.
CodeIgniter isn't an obscure framework, it's pretty widely used and well documented. If your developers kick up a fuss, then they're probably aren't as experienced as they would like to think they are.
For a prototype I would say definitely use whatever you're familiar with, instead of making the project much bigger than it needs to be. Writing your own framework is a huge challenge, but it's also a really good learning experience. I've written my own suited to my own needs just so that I could learn the language "in the deep end" (and I keep adding to it whenever I use it... maybe someday, when I decide it's "fully featured", I'll release it into the wider world). But you should only do that if you've got the time, and plenty of room for everything to go wrong.
Well, the question is: can you do better than every other MVC PHP framework out there? Reinventing the wheel only costs more time and the focus off your application changes, because you have 2 seperate things to maintain.
I would stick with a proper MVC framework. We use Symfony exclusively for that use. It's a great framework with a lot of features borrowed from other frameworks and other programming languages. However, the list is endlessly for PHP framework. I recommend reading a bit about other frameworks and pick the one which is the most suitable for your needs. It saves you time in the end.
As a developer, I had to go through the same road.
Personally, I chose CodeIgniter as primary tool of my development, mainly because of community support and straightforward MVC. However, CodeIgniter was built by EllisLab, and they are not community driven. If you are looking for something that has more dynamic, community driven, open source MVC framework, I would suggest using Kohana.
Kohana has a good community, and they have some notable contributors. Check it out here
If you are thinking of choosing from different types of frameworks, I would suggest make a list of things you want out of a framework, and do your search based on that.
I have been dabbling in programming/scripting languages since I was a kid. I started off with HTML and CSS, then went on to PHP (which I got quite good at) and then to Python, Perl, and C(++). I've recently done a lot of work in PHP (along with MySQL).
After spending so much time learning these languages, I now want to do something with them. I'm looking at starting/contributing to an open source project; almost certainly a web application of some sort.
In my experience with writing (admittedly small) web applications, I've found writing "pure" PHP to be an extremely slow and tedious process.
My question is this: if I were to be writing a relatively complex/large web application from scratch, what should I write it in? Should I use pure PHP/MySQL, or use a framework like Django, Rails, or CakePHP?
Writing a complex application from scratch, I would definitly not use "bare PHP" : I would certainly use a framework : they provide :
a large number of useful classes/methods
some set of rules -- like "in which directory should controllers be saved", "how to write a view", ...
MVC -- i.e. they help with better structuration of the project
Note that this answer is valid for both personnal projects, and professionnal projects.
There are several great Frameworks in PHP, like :
Zend Framework
Symfony
CakePHP
Code Igniter
Kohana
One thing to remember : learning how to use a framework well will take some time : starting with a small project, before going for a big one, would probably be a good idea ;-)
Now, when you're asking yourself the question of "which framework should I choose", it's mostly a matter of personnal preferences... And here are a couple of questions/answers that might help a bit :
PHP Framework Decision - Analysis paralysis!
To use a PHP framework or not?
PHP - MVC framework?
Which PHP Framework is right for this project?
Best PHP framework for an experienced PHP developer?
As you're asking me which Framework I would choose ; well :
I really like Zend Framework, and often use Doctrine as ORM (it's the default ORM of Symfony, but can be used very easily with ZF)
If I had to choose another one, I would probably go with Symfony, as I've seen it used on a couple of projects at work, and know many people who work with it and like it
If you already know that language, you should most definitely use a framework (unless you're a masochist).
For me, besides that fact that they're usually bundled with all sorts of great libraries, using a framework is all about using time effectively.
Most importantly, it will save you time. You're freed from the nitty-gritty of worrying about the foundation/architecture and are able to spend your time of the features of the application itself.
Also, it will save others time; especially since you plan on being all open sourcey.
depending of your skills level, yes you can do it in pure PHP without frameworks. This also will be good, IMO, to improve your skills at debugging, logics, and others. But, on the other hand, you will restrict to other programmers to improve/maintain your code due to learning curve, in this case, the framework serves as a commom language. I recommend that if your project will be complex, or with the possiblity to other programmers join in the project, that you choose a framework which you feels comfortable and use it.
Depends on who will be working with the code, on which plattform it has to run and how complex the database should be.
If you develop for a company or community it is always easiest to use PHP because there are many others who know it so i.e. for companies it's easier to recruit someone who knows the language.
If you mostly want to develop on your own, use what you like most, i even heard of websites written in pure common lisp.
If the application can run on windows only C# is also a good solution as you can develop web applications extremely fast and the .NET library makes many tasks easy.
As database backend you can use MySQL if the structure is simple but for more complex databases i'd use postgres as the MySQL performance seems to drop fast with increasing complexity (subjective opinion).
EDIT:
As others noted, Frameworks are always a good idea. There are web frameworks for most of the current languages. For PHP CakePHP was recently recommended to me.
I'm in the process of starting a new web site that is something like stackoverflow but a little bit more different along with making the members profiles highly more customizable I was thinking of building it from scratch using PHP, but was thinking of using CakePHP, but then I thought WordPress sounded better but I remember working with wordpress and it was a little bit slow at times when you tried to browse the web site.
So what I guess I'm trying to ask is that should I design the site from scratch? And I heard techcrunch.com and 9rules.com are completely done in WordPress, is this true?
Wordpress is a blogging engine, which is a specialised kind of CMS. It's not suitable for building something like Stack Overflow on.
CakePHP on the other hand is a framework - something to help you build a website so you're not starting from scratch. This would be a good bet.
For other PHP frameworks check these questions:
What PHP framework would you choose for a new application and why?
PHP Framework Decision - Analysis paralysis!
Be sure to check other frameworks too. CakePHP is a framework which makes a lot of choices for you. If your application fits in it probably works like a charm, but otherwise a framework can be a huge pain. Zend Framework has a lot more flexibility, but it also takes a lot more time to bootstrap your project. In the end it is all about personal preferences, so I would recommend you to just try some frameworks and find out how it feels for you.
Some frameworks:
Zend Framework
Symfony
CodeIgniter or it's successor Kohana
Wordpress isn't slow, if get decent web hosting and know how to tune a webserver. But no, it won't really suffice for this. FastCGI on a threaded webserver with enough memory to cover peak traffic is the way to go.
Drupal (and maybe Plone) could probably do what you want without coding, but you'd still have to learn a lot, so you might not gain much over just coding the thing.
Using wordpress or joomla or any other framework will require enormous emounts of custimization of the framework to meet your ends. If you are not very comfortable with using those frameworks and how they are built, you are probably better off writing by hand, and maybe develop your own framework that suits your own needs.
Hand code the novel aspects of your site first without concern for the final product. You goal should be to find what you really need and how you are going to need them. For instance, if you need a blog for the staff, then you can install WordPress and move on to the next problem (your branding can be duplicated to a WordPress theme).
If existing software solves the problem, then version 1.0 should be a Frankenstein solution (which sucks aesthetically). The idea is to map out the incongruities between the various problems you are trying to solve so that when you do rewrite everything you do not produce the same problems.
Ideally, you will spend most of your time adding value to what you need that is novel about the site.
I am going to be builiding a site like ebay - with all the features of ebay. Please note my payment method is limited to paypal.
What would be the best PHP framework
to use to build this quickly,
efficiently and with the smallest
learning curve?
I have narrowed down to CodeIgniter as the major contender for this project - but having looked through the docs I couldn't find a library or class that I can use with paypal - is the same for all frameworks- surley not?
Zend framework - I considered this but although its documentation is very good, hardly any video tutorials - other frameworks seem to have lots of these especially with normal developers creating screencasts - where is the Zend community!
CakePHP - Having read the stackoverflow threads, I gathered this is a slow framework, giving developers little control as it seems to be a CMS backbone rather than a framework - agree? It was also said cakePHP and Zend have a steeper learning curve than CodeIgnitor.
I have start my short-listing again and I would appreciate any help with this.
Thanks all
You'll very likely find CodeIgniter to have the lowest learning curve. Regardless of the framework you choose, you'll have to pick up where the framework leaves off, and that is going to mean a significant amount of work on your part (if you truly want to implement all the features of ebay). There seems to be a PayPal lib in the CodeIgniter Wiki. Looks like it would be a great place to start.
Cake is not a CMS backbone, it's a framework like the others. It's just more opinionated, i.e. geared towards CRUD operations (create, read, update, delete, what you typically do in a CMS). If your application is focused on CRUD, Cake will give your development a kickstart; you can get a complete admin interface for your database tables up in, literally, minutes.
Thanks to that it may be a little slower, especially compared to "loose" frameworks like Zend, but in the end it won't matter much. You can do anything with any of these frameworks and any of these frameworks can be optimized to run as fast as possible. Try to get a simple prototype app up and running in all of them and choose the one that seems most comfortable to you.
I'd really recommend Codeigniter for speed. I've made a few things with it and it was great.
If you need some help learning Codeigniter Nettuts has been doing some really good screencasts
In the end, it won't matter. Your code for database and presentation will trump any 'problems' your framework has. The frameworks you listed are awefully similar. You'll be more or less stuck with which you pick, so pick one and learn all you can.
If you're going with codeigniter (note, maybe take a look at Kohana too, the php5 fork of CI), you can always use libs out of Zend if theres something that fits your needs.