I've been coding php for years, and now i have to finally make my own project, and i want it very optimized and shiny. So, i've been searching around the net about which programming language should i use for my needs (fast, secure, easy-understandable, customizable) and all points to -> Python. So I decided to go on, but i just can't feel "home" when writing python (inc Django app...). I got used to PHP's syntax, and my IDE (PHP Expert Editor 4.3) makes php look awesome, so now i just can't go with python.
Maybe there is something which has php's syntax (let's say per example: Perl)...but the advantages of a high-level programming language (aka Python)?
Use what you like and what you know. If you want to try something new that's ok .. but if you want to start a serios project now I would not use a new language for this.
Maybe better look what you could do better with php. (Maybe use a better template engine or design clever classes or whatever). Many huge webapps are developed with php and are working very well.
Also I would not say that Django is a highly optimized framework .. if you want to look into something new well documented you could check the flask microframework http://flask.pocoo.org/
This line of work requires you to adjust to different syntaxes (even in PHP alone you need to know sql and js and Css and html too...).
So the answer is no, there is nothing like what you ask, and you better get used to that :-)
b.t.w is Python really faster than PHP?
If you've been coding in PHP for years, then maybe PHP is still the right choice for you? As long as your project is related to web (by the way Facebook uses PHP!) you should stick to it.
Python is really easy and fun to learn, but as any other programming language - it requires time to get into it. And for web projects, you'll have to catch up with frameworks and maybe servers (e.g. tornado).
If you'd like to do something on enterprise level, Java is also a good choice. But never as easy and as fun as Python :)
Related
Is there a library I can use my C# (my option because this language is feasible-useable in most platforms; it truly outperforms C++ and Java, up to 85-90% : just personal % but self reliable) with PHP ? I am new to PHP, just don't know what to do with it until I'm commanded.
Sorry, i mean to setups to display in browsers, and to use in database,.
If you mean integrating C# libraries with PHP, yes, you can.
PHP happens to have a rarely-used COM library. I'm fairly sure it's what you're looking for.
http://php.net/manual/en/book.com.php
However, consider simply learning either ASP.NET (C#-like) or PHP itself. Combining two languages is almost never a good idea.
CAVEAT: I have not used PeachPie or Phalanger at all.
Depending on your requirements, one approach is to bring PHP into the .NET environment.
See PeachPie.
PeachPie is based on Phalanger compiler
NOTE: As in all attempts to combine different technologies, expect to have to learn some of both environments, to be productive. And expect to bump into annoying problems, limitations, and bugs that wouldn't be an issue if only using one of the two.
Also consider: when you encounter a problem, it may be harder to find a solution:
Many people use php. Many people use c#. Only a tiny fraction of those people try to combine the two.
I first learned web programming with php a while back. It has some features that I find very helpful, but the overall language is not something I enjoy, just as a matter of personal preference. I am wondering what alternatives I could use to provide similar functionality using a different underlying programming language (Python? Ruby?).
What I am looking for:
general purpose programming capability
in-line server-side code embedded in HTML (i.e. I want to be able to make my documents pure HTML if desired, rather than demanding special syntax even where I don't want dynamic content)
access to request parameters
ability to send headers, set cookies, etc
Preferably:
does not require a separate server process
easy to connect with Apache
Does anyone have any suggestions?
One thing I tried to do was embedded Ruby (erb) through CGI. This looked like a good fit on paper. Unfortunately, I was not able to get it to work, because I was following a few different guides and the result of combining them did not work out. At any rate, it seems this would not allow me to set arbitrary headers (and more importantly, use sessions and cookies).
Note: I'm not looking for a full web framework at the moment. Just relatively small amounts of dynamic content among otherwise HTML pages.
Thanks!
You've hit on the big reason why PHP is so popular - it has all of those pieces in a server-embeddable package. There aren't really many solutions with its ease of deployment; PHP is written specifically for what you want, which is both its strength and weakness. It's why it's such a weak general-purpose language, and why everyone and their dog knows it. It's everywhere, and the barrier to entry is near zero.
PHP is a language plus templating plus a web framework all baked into one package. To get an equivalent, you're going to need a web framework, even if it's a small one. Something like Sinatra is a super lightweight way to do similar in Ruby, though it requires a separate server process.
You could look at something like Perl with cgi.pm, but it may be a step in the wrong direction if you're wanting something cleaner than PHP.
I don't know Python packages well enough to offer suggestions there, but Twisted makes it easy to bind a Python program to a web interface. That does end up running in its own server process, though.
You'll need to do a little more work than your standard PHP deploy if you want to use something besides PHP, but that's often a choice that people consider to be a reasonable tradeoff for gains in productivity.
Python Flask is a good web framework: it fits your requirements, easy to learn, and scales gracefully. Go through the tutorial to see!
I have three suggestions.
The first is Ruby on Rails - It's pretty fun once you get into it.. I would recommend going through Rails for Zombies to get a general idea of whether you like it or not.
http://railsforzombies.org/
It's really easy to get something up and running on Heroku for free, so you don't have to spend any money to get something up on the web..
My second suggestion is one I'm just trying out called Node.js. I'd recommend watching this video to get an idea of what it's about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo_B4LTHi3I
If you're into Javascript, I think you'll get it right away. You can also build an open source Node.js project on www.cloud9ide.com which is pretty nifty too.
A third one, if you're into learning Java, is "Play". A cool video on this is:
http://vimeo.com/7087610
I haven't used this much, but it's on my "to do" list of things to check out. Overall, I suggest just dipping your toes in the water for a bunch of different frameworks and get an idea of how they work and then you'll naturally pursue whatever makes the most sense to you. Good luck!
I'd say given your requirement
Just relatively small amounts of dynamic content among otherwise HTML pages.
then, PHP is going to be hard to beat for getting going quickly and a minimum of learning overhead. It avoids all the CGI issues that you would otherwise have to deal with, and is in fact its own templating language. That's why so many get started with it. Once you get past the point of your goal of mixing a little programming logic into HTML pages, and developing more flexible, maintainable and testable applications, then frameworks such as Rails, Django and others will be worth your time to learn.
Using Scheme as a web development language meets your criteria, with a caveat: instead of inline code embedded in HTML, you have inline code embedded in the Lisp-ish representation of HTML called s-expressions. (There is a one-to-one correspondence between HTML and is s-exp equivalent; they can be interconverted with one function call.) So the static parts of your page and the code share the same syntax - something I really like about Scheme.
> (sxml->xml `(div (p "It's been: " (i ,(current-time)) " seconds")))
<div>
<p>
It's been: <i>1339772791</i> seconds
</p>
</div>
I'm a PHP developer. I like PHP! It is a really good language if you know how to use it, but I know it allows very bad design sometimes.
It reminds me of JavaScript which has good parts and bad parts. One particular project, CoffeeScript, tries to focus only on the good parts, forcing you to write good code.
I was thinking if something similar could be done with PHP... A new syntax that would be compiled only to good PHP code taking advatage of all the new and exciting stuff we can get with PHP 5.3.
So, getting ahead of some people, I'll ask: Why create a new language on top of PHP if you can just use Ruby or Python or something else?
PHP is easy to deploy anywhere
The language itself has a lot of good features and ideas
There are lots of good libraries written in PHP
...
So, my real questions here are...
Is this a stupid idea? Why would it be? Do you think CoffeeScript is stupid?
How do someone starts to create a new language on top of another? I know nothing about this, but I would like to learn. Where to start?
The idea is definitely not stupid, especially if executed well.
I like coffeescript a lot, but it has it's approach has downsides as well. Debugging a coffeescript script still requires you read the generated Javascript code, which can be tedious, since you haven't written it actually yourself.
I've understood that Jeremy Ashkenas, the creator of coffeescript has started to work on coffeescript after reading "Create your own freaking awesome programming language" by Marc-André Cournoyer.
Good luck!
The reason CoffeScript is a good idea is that if developers want to run code in a client browser they have to use javascript; so the only way to program in a different language is to allow that language to be convertible to javascript.
I'm not sure the same really applies to server side programming. If you've got issues with PHP and want to use a new language there is no real advantage to having that language generate PHP.
On the other hand, a language that was very similar to PHP, but fixed some of the flaws would be a great idea.
Heh, great idea. My thoughts, some contradictory...
There are precedents for civilizing bad languages by putting syntax preprocessors in front of them.
In the early days of Unix, Fortran was popular and about the only portable language because most machines had no C compiler. But the vanilla Fortran of the day didn't even have block structured if-then-else, just a goofy single-statement if or an if-goto. So, the Ratfor language was implemented as a preprocessor for Fortran-66.
I believe there were (are?) Cobol preprocessors that presumably dealt with the verbosity and limitations of early Cobol dialects.
To this day Unix-derived systems ship with a macro processor called m4.
Several CSS preprocessors are available today, most notably Sass and LESS.
But...
Just let it die, and the sooner the better
The problem isn't really in the syntax.
I don't see much of a JavaScript-PHP parallel. JavaScript is a great language. It's kind of the opposite of PHP.
I'm not sure why you say that PHP is a great language. It's one of the worst. Every decent feature is a patch or repatch in a recent version.
As you noted, there is a fixed-up version of PHP already: it's called Ruby and, as a language, it's near-perfect. There is another fixed-up version called Python. The world would be better off in the long run if we support the better systems.
It is here now. A new language which is to PHP what CoffeeScript is to Javascript. (I.e., awesome.)
SNOWSCRIPT
Snowscript code looks like this:
fn how_big_is_it(number)
if number < 100
<- "small"
else
<- "big"
PHP output looks like this:
function how_big_is_it($number) {
if ($number < 100) {
return "small";
} else {
return "big";
}
}
All it needs now, is you.
If it would be to PHP what something like sass is to CSS, I'd be interested. But what would exactly would you want to add? Or would you just want to weed out the bad?
And what would you consider to be the bad?
Writing a PHP syntax transformer would probably be a neat project.
However, don't forget that PHP's standard library is a huge mess. Cleaning that up, would be a far bigger task.
The more I am thinking about this, the more irrealistic it sounds. The reason is simple: There actually are such language proprocessors already. Two of them (though not using PHP as implementation, only as compilation target) can be found here. But simply nobody uses them.
Yes, if the compiler itself were written in PHP, probably more people would use it. But I really can't see a way how to get this popular enough to be worth the work.
Another big problem is, that people mostly are used to their awesome code-highlighting, code-completing, code-inspecting IDE. Without getting IDE support probably merely anybody will use it (and IDE support can only be obtained by having many people use it...)
Thoughts?
I can see writing compilers to JavaScript (because the web imposes it upon us), but this sounds like a waste of time.
Haxe already does this, although it's not specifically targeted at PHP (linked to the Wikipedia article instead of their website because I'm afraid I'm going to get exploited if I visit the real site...)
PHP is easy to deploy anywhere
...as are its vulnerabilities.
I know it allows very bad design sometimes.
That's a bit of an understatement, it doesn't even have a module system, has no encapsulation, and has tons of silly things such as dynamic name resolution.
PHP is slow enough as it is, do you really want something an order of a magnitude slower?
Java is much more easy to deploy anyways, and lets you drop down to the bytecode level if you want. Java also gives you access to moderately sane libraries.
This is something I have thought about already often. PHP just is messy at some points.
Actually, I already have a project PrePHP focusing on providing PHP 5.3 functionality to PHP 5.2. But it adds some minor language features, like func()[0]. I haven't developed this project for some time and it definitely isn't "clean", but it shows, that what you want is possible and actually even not that complicated.
If you are serious about this, I am perfectly willing to collaborate with you.
Very interesting idea and if it come to life i think that i wan't to be involved in :)
For start You may check and read this position http://www.amazon.com/Masterminds-Programming-Conversations-Creators-Languages/dp/0596515170 (iam reading it now). It makes clear how really complicated is to maintain own language.
I agree that PHP definitely could do with some improvement, right now it allows for too much fooling around.
Some things I'd like to see
Static Typing
Required indentation
Proper use of objects (using arrays as objects is just stupid)
Then again, maybe I should just drop PHP and start working with Ruby or Python.
I'm like 8 years too late, but I'll answer anyways for anyone else who stumbles upon this.
Hack is a language developed by Facebook to deal with some of the issues of PHP, since Facebook had a large PHP codebase. Hack adds some nice features on top of PHP such as gradual typing (what TypeScript has) and generics, among other features, and gets rid of some of the more dangerous PHP features. Hack was at one point a superset of PHP, but is no longer completely compatible after removing some of the worse PHP features.
This is slightly different from what you were asking, since at this point Hack has its own interpreter, written by Facebook, but this started out as "better language that compiles to PHP", so I thought it was worth mentioning here.
I'm tired. I have ~30 really messy PHP files in my project. Hearing people say that Asp.net is more structured , that it is better (I'm mostly relying on Jeff's advice #codinghorror here) and that it is possible to use asp.net without using bloated software from M$. I don't want to and will not convert the the work done upto now, by hand.
Note: I want a good tool -- I don't want to go from ~30 unstructured and messy files to even messier stuff stored in a quantillion directories with odd file names (Java)
The difficulty is that you can do some things automatically in ASP.NET that you have to do by hand in PHP. For example, if I change a input textbox and when I tab away I want it to be saved automatically, in ASP.NET I can use AutoPostback='true'. Then, in the code-behind you would handle this update.
My point is that ASP.NET and PHP are very different, in that there are so many tools that ASP.NET that you can use, so your code will look very different when going from PHP to ASP.NET.
I think using a tool would be a bad idea, as this rewrite would give you a chance to clean up the code and to decide which options to use that are available.
UPDATE: In order to do more with interactive applications there is a free toolkit available that I would recommend:
http://www.asp.net/ajax/AjaxControlToolkit/Samples/
I build automated translation tools for a living (see DMS Software Reengineering Toolkit. In my 15 years of experience doing juist this, it isn't worth the trouble to build ("customize DMS" or do something similar with a similar techology if you can find it) a translator for 30 * 1000 lines of code.
You might be hoping for somebody to have done this in advance, "Gee, wouldn't it be keen if somebody built such a translator and I can just use it?" Such a hope is pretty forlorn. The problem is that every source application uses some arbitrary combination of input technologies (you're probably using PHP, MySQL, JavaScript and some weird libraries) and want some arbitrary configuration of output technologies (ASP, TSQL, JavaScript, C# libraries). The space of input/output configurations is too vast for you to have any real chance of encountering at translator that somebody might have built that matches your needs. Therefore you'll need a custom translator. Ooops, back to the previous paragraph.
You can pray for miracle. But I suggest you clean up your PHP files and live with them. The world is full of "beware what you build, because it will last a lot longer than you expect". Choose your technology and architecture more carefully next time, so you don't end up with "messy files".
I'm not sure how much luck you'll have finding a program that'll convert 30 messy PHP files into beautifully structured ASP files, I think someone would make quite a fortune with something like that (and a lot of us would be out of jobs). However, if you really want to pursue it, googling for "convert php to asp.net" turned up multiple results.
I'm reading The Pragmatic Programmer and I'm on the section where the authors suggest that we learn a new language every year. I'm currently a PHP developer and I'm wondering, what should I learn next?
I'm looking for a language that will help me improve my skills and help me with my daily tasks. Something useful.
Any suggestions?
[Edit]
Awesome answers guys! Thanks.
I'm still contemplating your answers and I'm leaning on studying Python or a functional prgoramming language as you guys have suggested (maybe Lisp).
Going for the option of learning something new, rather than something a bit like what you have done before.
C++ or C
A low level language that requires manual memory management and teaches you how things work at a lower level. Good community base and is one of the languages that a programmer should learn.
I would suggest one of these over assembly as although assembly is even lower level it is pain to produce a project. Learning a language like C or C++ will have the bonus of allowing you to learn assembly very fast if you ever want to do it, as there are relatively few new concepts compared to going from Java to assembly.
Haskell
A purely functional language that totally changes the way you look at some problems. It takes a lot of effort lean if you are already used to a imperative style of writing code.
It has the great advantage of teaching you the joys of recursion, and even if you are never payed to write a line of Haskell it should impact the code you write in other languages, allowing you to see better and cleaner solutions.
Java or C#
If you don't use PHP in an Object Oriented way (Not just using classes, but features like inheritance as well), then these languages force you to write in a OO style. I wouldn't recommend these if you are happy with OO programming.
Python and Ruby seem to be a relatively painless transition to/from PHP.
I'd go for Java or C#, so you learn something that is not another scripting language.
JavaScript.
And I mean really learn it, not just "enough to get by" the way the trend seems to be. I've seen otherwise-great (on the server side) web developers that can waste 2 days on a trivial JavaScript problem because they don't understand it at all.
I don't think there is a language that a developer will come across more often than JavaScript, and when you need to use it, you need to use it: you won't have the freedom of picking some other language to run on the clients browser. The good news is that it shouldn't take very long to grasp when compared to some other programming languages.
A good place to start is with JavaScript:The World's Most Misunderstood Programming Language
I believe it would be strongly beneficial for you to try and pick up on one of the popular functional programming languages as they require a completely different mindset and methodology for solving problems. They really allow for you to program elegant yet minimalistic solutions to difficult problems. Some of the more common languages include:
Erlang
Haskell
Lisp
Whilst I agree learning a new language is a good idea - make sure you are learning them and not just collecting them. For example - I come from a Java background and I keep catching myself writing in other languages in the way I'd write something in Java and not taking advantage of the new language's facilities. I'm sure you wont - but just be aware that it's a natural thing to do so keep an eye out for if you start doing the same!
As for which I'd learn; I'd second learning Ruby (plus optionally Rails if you want to do web apps) - it's a very nice language and quite an easy transition from PHP. The "Pickaxe" book from pragmatic programmers is a good place to start.
If you have access to a Mac - I very much recommend learning Objective-C and Cocoa. I certainly learnt a lot by studying these - I think more than any others I felt that understanding these made me a better all round developer. As for books - start with Kochan's "Programming in Objective-C" for the language side, then progress on to Hillegas' "Cocoa Programming for Mac OSX" for the GUI side.
Good luck!
I started off learning PHP after C. Then I discovered Perl and I never looked at PHP again. The reasons? Perl, like PHP, was dynamically typed, but far more modular. The Camel book about Perl was a delight to read. Running a Perl script from the command line was far quicker than PHP which needed all possible libraries loaded - Perl permitted me to choose what extra functionality I wanted at run-time keeping simple scripts light-weight. The Perl community is relatively advanced compared to other languages. The Perl language lets you program in a variety of styles, from procedural, to OO.
Functional languages seem to be gaining interest I'm planning on looking at F# primarily because I'm working with the Microsoft stack most at the moment.
I'd also recommend looking at topics that aren't language specific such as improving OO skills, using design patterns, and anything else that helps refine your skills as a developer to make you more of a craftsman rather than collecting languages that you won't get to use on substantial project and therefore will never really master.
Python + Django if you want to stay in scripting.
C if you want to understand how it works behind the scene.
C (as in C, not C++) would be my suggestion. It will instantly make you appreciate just what interpreted or higher level languages actually do for you (or save you from, depending).
It is also the first logical stepping stone to C++, though I know a lot of people who just dived into C++. Learning C first will (as above) either make you appreciate, or hate C++ even more.
To be a really well rounded programmer, you need to deal with managing types on your own, as well as managing memory without the safety net of a garbage collector. It used to be that those two were prerequisites for being a programmer at all.
Besides, think of all the fun you could have writing your own PHP extensions :)
This could turn into a debate.
My suggestion is to learn a new language that has something to do with your existing skills.
My "first language" was C, which brought me to C++ and Visual C. When I took on consultant jobs I enter the realm of PHP.
Starting from here, I am collecting skills in Javascript and jQuery, since they are tightly coupled with PHP. (DOM, CSS, and HTML aren't languages, so they don't count here.)
Or maybe you want to take another direction and go for SQL.
Choices is yours and crossroads are everywhere.
Not sure if you are programming PHP under the MVC model? But if you are not that is another good methodology to learn.
Examples: Zend or CakePHP
It totally depends on what you want to do. I don't think anyone can say what you should learn next, but rather share you with our experiences that will help you make your mind. After all, the decision for your next language should be based what what kind of applications you want to develop (desktop, mobile, web, etc).
I'll share you with my experience. I used to be a PHP programmer and I faced the same question, what do I want to concentrate on. I ended up to learn Java and I've been happy with my choice. Here are some of the reasons why I think it was a good choice
Java is a widely used language in the corporate world. This means that with good Java skills you'll be likely to find (more easily) a (better) job, more so than with Python or Ruby skills (disclaimer: this can of course vary between regions and countries, this was the case in my area)
I had done lots of web sites and applications with PHP and I've loved the web as an environment. Still, I felt that PHP wasn't quite the language to create full blown enterprise applications - that was something I also wanted to do - to be part of making large enterprise applications. Luckily, with tools like GWT or Vaadin I've been able to create enterprise applications which run in the web environment - all in Java. That was like a win-win for me, I was able to create large software for the web.
Java has forced me to think more Object Oriented, something I've benefited when writing PHP as well.
Java is multi-platform, so it is easy to write applications for linux/mac/windows or even for mobile devices (Java ME)
My two cents.
It depends on your motivation for learning the language.
If you want to learn a new language to do your day-to-day work more effectively I would suggest Python or Ruby. They are popular languages that are both highly productive to work in, and can be applied to a wide range of programming tasks. As someone else has pointed out there are versions for both the JVM (Jython and JRuby) and for .Net (IronPython & IronRuby) so if you want to learn either of those platforms they are a good way to start. They are also both easy to learn and fun to use. My preference is for Python, but that is probably because I have been using it for many years.
If you want to increase your employment options then go with the most popular languages used in business - this means either Java or C#.
If you want to expand your mind then I suggest a version of Lisp. I recommend Clojure - it is a dialect of Lisp that runs on the JVM and gives access to all the Java libraries. There is an excellent introductory book in the Pragmatic Programmers' bookshelf.
JavaScript (preferably through jQuery and Ext.js)
RegExp (preg_match flavour)
SQL (MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite dialects)
XSLT (and XML)
Each is very different. Each serves different purpose and each is very useful for PHP web developer.
If you want to try something different I'd go with
ActionScript (great opportunities)
C# (great IDE)
Python (complex ideas, misleadingly simple syntax)
Rebol (fun of having strange constructs work flawlessly on first guess)
Lisp.
(Or some other functional language.)
I coded in PHP for years and then took a (functional) Lisp class. It was four weeks of wtf %#f pain and then pure joy. Understanding functional programming, and especially recursion, really gives you and edge when coding PHP (or any other solution-oriented business language).