I'm looking for some kind of CMS or framework + ORM (I don't really know exactly what I'm looking for).
My goal is to build a web app to view and manage database records.
To help understand, I would like some sort of end-user phpmyadmin/CMS hybrid with minimal programming efforts. In fact, that is to build a database of a particular kind of products, where those are submitted and consulted by end user and validated by myself.
I first thought that wordpress + plugins, mediawiki + semantic or drupal could be quick solutions but
those are quite heavy for the purpose.
Playing with tons of plugins don't reassure me, as they can become unmaintained, conflicting, ..
Solutions like mediawiki requires bunch of time to write templates, etc..
Then I thought at using a framework (let's say symfony) but it's also very time-consuming (compared to an almost out-of-the-box solution).
Finaly, I thought that the quickest solution may be to develop it all by myself using an easy ORM (like RedBean), but I wish I could find a quicker solution.
Any idea ?
Note: I intend to use a php/mysql solution.
There are plenty of "micro-frameworks" for PHP that work very well with RedBean (which I love btw). It's a compromise between writing everything from scratch and using a full blown framework. I find their is a good degree of flexability using these small(ish) tool kits.
One I've used a little bit is Slim, which gives you routing and some other small things a controller would.
Other similar "micro-frameworks" like Slim:
Silex
Limonade
GluePHP (which is about 30 lines of code)
These all give you routing and some other neat tools. In regards to MVC, they sorta give you the C.
If RedBean is your Model, or the M, all your missing is the V, should you want the whole MVC organization.
For that you can use Smarty, Twig or Mustache, or any other templating tool.
I personally love working with these components separately, because I find that they are all highly specialized, integrate nicely, and allow me to control to what extent they are in charge of things. The downside is is that they may have compatibility issues with each other and that you have to maintain three, as oppose to one, third-party library to update and depend on their development.
Here's a good article on using Slim with Idiorm (an ORM) and Twig, though I find Idiorm rather nasty to work with.
Sounds like you could use:
asp.net + mvc or django
Sorry these are two different comparable environments that should help with not a lot of overhead on learning, and can function quite well with mysql
Related
I'm a beginner php developer who is trying to build a social network for my school students. Knowing that the school has over 1000 students who are already active, I must have a plan of expanding / scale the code that I write.
Earlier it was just the LAMP Stack, now the modern web development is way more than that as I see, I'm truly kind of lost in what technologies to use and how to incorporate them to build a scalable app. I'm hoping to divide this application into 3 layers.
Application layer (phalcon,reddis,apache,php)[mvc api centric]
Database layer(mysql)
UI layer - (html/css/js/)
This is where i need help, is this design approach good for a scalable app ? where can i improve ? any explanations, links for further reading will be a highly appreciated.
Welcome to SO. I cannot think of a particular reference guide to direct you to (although the PHP manual is a good place if you end up stuck with how to do something specific). I would suggest reading a bit of several results when you search "Getting started with MVC in PHP" and noting what they agree on. That said, take a look at what I say below (and then ignore it as much as you please ;) ).
Firstly, you are wiser than many in sorting out a scalable design before launching into the project...
I'm excited to see Phalcon in your list there already. However, as DevDonkey suggested, start with something simpler first (Phalcon is very powerful but to really get to grips with it you need a good grasp of PHP, particularly object-orientated programming).
If you are completely new to PHP...
... try building a small app (products table, view/add/edit/delete functionality) and learn the beginnings of the language that way, as this answer suggests. Things will go wrong and you'll discover lots of headaches when you want to change one feature and it affects everything else but that will help you to understand the importance of...
MVC design
From your question I can see you have at least heard of this. This is really where the layers of your application lie:
Model - interactions with the database (retrieving/editing data) are handled through this. So you could have a MYSQL database and then your models provide a nice interface to interact with the data (generally you have one model for each table).
View - this is the last layer, what the user sees. So you will make use of your html/css/js knowledge here. On this topic, unless you really want to do your own css consider using a CSS Framework such as Bootstrap. It will really help speed up making your site look good and there are loads of free templates out there to use with it.
Controller - this is the application logic. The controllers request/manipulate data through the models and then decide what to send to the views for rendering.
Use a framework?
Using a good framework can make your application more reliable and quicker to build. But using a framework without understanding it will be frustrating, slow and possibly result in worse code than if you didn't use one to begin with (as you employ hacks to get around the pieces of the framework you don't understand). My current favourite is Phalcon but as a relative beginner to PHP I would suggest something more like CakePHP although both Laravel and Symfony are also popular.
Summary
Start small, learn, test ideas out and then build up to a bigger project.
Get comfortable using PHP (including OOP style) before using a framework.
Use an MVC framework
The layers you laid out in your question are good, but I would split it slightly differently (considering that MVC is the 3 layers)
Application Layer - controllers, written in PHP, handles logic/manipulation, often the biggest layer
Database Layer - models, written in PHP, you will also need a database which could be in your favourite database language - MySQL ;)
UI Layer - views, possibly written in PHP (depending on the framework) but also HTML, CSS and JS as well as well as a templating language if you wish (e.g. Twig or Volt), essentially a way to make the response from the controller nice for a human
First Project (for CakePHP)
This blog tutorial is a good place to start if you decide to use CakePHP.
Getting started with Phalcon
Phalcon is more powerful/verstile, but to get started with it I feel you have to be a better PHP developer than you do to get started with something like CakePHP. Take your time to understand each new concept with Phalcon, particularly Dependency Injection.
Even having used CakePHP for the past 2 years and being familiar with MVC patterns and PHP, I still worked my way through all 7 of the tutorials in Phalcon.
Having said this, my favourite thing about Phalcon is that it is highly decoupled - so it is fairly easy (after a while) to replace bits of it with your own extensions if it doesn't quite do what you want.
Note about Phalcon: It is not as popular as many other frameworks (although popularity is growing) and so you may have to spend some time digging around when you get stuck. However, the docs are improving all the time and the forum is very active. Unfortunately the number answering questions about it on StackOverflow is still small compared to many other frameworks.
I have ready numerous posts here on SO about framework1 vs framework2 however it seems to be alot of personal opinions that are one sided. Based on the following can someone tell me which framework would be ideal for my needs?
Build a rich featured API where other sites and devices can use the API to use website features and access it's content.
RSS Feeds with both XML and JSON for jQuery interaction.
Ability to use layouts / templates that are customizable.
Use of plugins so that I do not need to duplicate code.
Database querying with relationships.
GREAT documentation.
Actively supported.
Doesn't REQUIRE command line access.
Easy to manage file uploads and move the files around so only certain users can download them.
Customizable access level so users can have different access levels depending on which project/section they are viewing.
Low overhead usage.
SEO URLS that do not require the '/view','/edit','/add' in the urls (depending on which action you want to do.)
Support for jQuery
There have been a few frameworks I have seen that support some of these but not all. I am currently using CakePHP for one project but do not think it would fit my needs as the database querying can get horrendous. I have heard a little bit about CodeIgnitor however it doesn't seem to easily use templating (maybe I just misunderstood what I read).
If you could tell me which framework you think would be ideal for these needs and why that would be very helpful!
I'll just spamvertize my little framework overview table here. The simple table answers a few of your technical points:
http://matrix.include-once.org/framework/simple
Use the detail/feature view to cherrypick your options.
RSS isn't a standard feature even with the big frameworks, use a PEAR library
templates: all frameworks use them
plugins: depends on your concept of plugins, most frameworks are extensible though
look for "ORM"
GREAT documentation: that would limit you to codeigniter or cakephp
Doesn't REQUIRE command line access: except symfony+cake, few do
file uploads: this isn't a standard feature, but I'd just mix and match a library
Customizable access level: practically all frameworks come with a permission system
Support for jQuery: this is surprising. Prototype seems to be very strong, only half the frameworks use jQuery by default
CakePHP database querying doesn't have to be horrendous. (Though, I remember my first few projects were definitely hard on the database)
With the right optimization, normalization/de-normalization of your data, and a few tweaks here and there (persistent models comes to mind), you can accomplish everything you've inquired about with CakePHP, and keep your database load to a minimum.
That said, if you truly want to move to something else, I'd go with Zend Framework.
Symfony is bloated, (and yes, fanboys, this is still true).
Codeigniter is super lightweight, but you're going to be doing a LOT more work to accomplish your listed requirements. I've spun up two codeigniter applications, both relatively simple, and both took twice the work / twice the amount of new code than if I had gone with say, CakePHP.
A lot of religious fanaticism floating around when you talk about frameworks. But take a look at the documentation of Fat-Free Framework. It just might catch your fancy and requirements.
Before I answer, let me qualify that I'm certified on Zend, a frequent user of CodeIgniter, and daily user (and hater) of Symfony.
Zend's setup, especially if you're doing a small-medium sized site can be ugly. Especially using the data mapper strategy, you're talking a thousand or more lines of codes just for the model setup. CodeIgniter is much better setup-wise, but still not insignificant.
Command-line free --essentially-- knocks out Zend. It's doable, but not fun (see thousand lines of code, above) Built-in user auth isn't nearly as good on CodeIgniter as Zend, perhaps that's a serious knock....definitely no templating there. Symfony is flat-out done because of the addition of /view /edit, etc.
Hate to break it to you, but it seems that many users of all these frameworks are not native English speakers. Forget about Symfony, seems entirely eastern-European based. I'd hate to be a new-to-php user of Zend Framework with all the competing tuts with their assumptions of some semi-complex concepts. There's a reason that Zend's training is expensive and full.... Again, CodeIgniter is not horrible, but still can be frustrating.
Simply because of our extensive use of Jquery and desire to avoid a ton of hack-around, my company has dumped the frameworks altogether. Now setup is purposeful, not for a framework...just build a DAL, assemble classes, build views, and done. Established functions are re-purposed as "plugins" that we actually know and understand. Most interaction is Jquery based Ajax (sometimes XAJAX) which really doesn't take advantage of the frameworks anyway--and fights tooth and nail with Symfony. For those who argue that frameworks force MVC, I have a VP of Development who does that just fine, thank you. Perhaps it's not the right answer for you, but we're glad we went this route. It's saved weeks worth of documentation-hunting.
Something easy like CI (this means mandatory good, easy, up to date documentation). But also with some more features than CI.
Yii has lots of features, but it is also more complex (and it kind of forces you to have to use lots of it features). That means adding some functionality to your web-app takes three times as long because you have to figure out lots of new small functionalities of Yii.
It's kind of like the CI "gets out of your way" when it needs to, and Yii gets in your way, and if you don't do it its way, it breaks.
Features missing in CI that would be nice to have in this new "intermediate" PHP framework:
Code generation (crud).
Authentication.
Access control.
Layouts.
Widgets.
Easyer / automated pagination (like yii)
easy uri parameters
Where Yii causes me problems:
It's like for every small task there is some inbuilt functionality (this is good), but, YOU HAVE to use the inbuilt functionality, otherwise bad things happen. (CI gets out of your way, but does it too much, Yii helps a lot, but is butting in too much at times, and it forces you to sift through its documentation so that you discover these functions without which you are not able to accomplish a task that would take four time less, in CI, or in a non framework app).
Is there something in between ?
(ASP.NET MVC could be 'it', but I don't know the language, so the effort to learn it would be greater than learning Yii php framework really well, so I am looking for a PHP Framework)
I am a fan of CakePHP. I feel it has the specs you provided. If you want something more cutting edge you can take a look at Lithium
I have found some resources that kindof solve the problem, because they contain examples (Milan Babuškov's sugestion helped focus on "the solution").
Yii playground - examples
Yii cookbook - examples
Yii blog tutorial - more examples
PS. there is also google - I find solution (and examples) the fastest this way - ex: implement + pagination + yii
I've used both CI and Yii (on my own projects if that makes any difference). CI was my first introduction to MVC, and I found it easy going because it let me use any crappy structure and code. I wrote two full sites in CI (www.insolvencynews.com and www.thebigeat.com if you want to see complexity.)
I had a look at CakePHP but got NOWHERE.
Then I moved on to Yii and, like you, I found it pretty tough and rigid. But I then found that it was so powerful and extensible that I was so much more efficient. When I needed to add a few new features to the old CI sites, it was faster to rewrite the entire sites on Yii than to code up the extra features in CI.
I can't recommend a framework in the middle, but I can recommend sticking with Yii. When you say Yii gets in the way, can you give an example? Looking at DB stuff (in ascending order of dependence on Yii):
you can code using PHP's core MySQL functions.
$result = mysql_query($sql);
you can use Yii's DB abstraction layer.
Yii::app()->db->createCommand($sql)->queryAll();
You can use Yii's ActiveRecord:
Takeaway::model()->findAll();
you could try kohana (especially coming from ci)
You should check out the CI community, some of those extensions maybe have been written by someone else (I remember seeing Authentication and Components/Widgets somewhere)
Symfony is worth checking out. I personally don't like it much because they chose Prototype over jQuery for their ajax features, which is really annoying to use when you're used to jQuery.
Lithium might be good to check out too. However, it is php 5.3 only and you need to be really careful that this version of PHP is going to be supported on the server the site will be deployed on.
See this list for good comparisson:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_application_frameworks#PHP_2
From a personal point of view, I would go with symfony because of it's
rich features and
great integration with many other already bundeled components (Doctrine, Swift Mailer,..),
good (but at first complex) code generation that produces realy useable code to get you startet quickly,
powerfull use of templating (that will be the point you mention under "layouts)
many different, powerfull plug-ins, including Authentication & Access Control (it also has a plug-in to get jQuery support)
one of the best tutorials that I've seen with a framework
Downside is a
more complex structure,
IMO wired file structure,
a rather messy API documentaion compared to the tutorial
CodeIgniter is a nice framework if you don't want to create big apps but it lacks a great database integretaion and you already mentioned code generation.
im very good in Raw PHP, where the project at hand became too much to handle i decided to move to zend, with too too much complexity i finally moved to YII which really reduced the cost and overhead time for project development and most importantly for me is the simple integration of jquery, widget and advanced-OOP.
You could have a look at Qcodo / Qcubed.
They are both easy to pick up and offer code generation / ORM
Easy way to create forms in an mvc kind of way.
For what its worth, if you're looking for a PHP Framework that is like ASP.NET MVC then I think Prado is the closest thing you will find.
ive seen many third party mvcs or frameworks such as codeignitor , cakephp, and so on. what i want to know is what are their purposes? ive created my own framework call it an mvc or framework (in my opinion their all the same). in my framework i have all the classes in one folder called classes and all functions in another. its all organized and when a new project comes in i am able to complete it fast. i have looked at the applications that i mentioned and it seems to have huge articles and tutorials to study. what is the purpose? why not study the main language such as php, javascript/ajax or jquery, and so on then build something that you know the ins and outs of so that any project comes your way you know what to do. ive known some people who use cakephp and for every project they get stuck and need to figure out what to do. another guy i knew worked with joomla and every basic company website that came his way he would reverse engineer joomla to make it work with the site. are people using these applications because they lack knowledge in the languages? or sometimes have no choice but to make a site while lacking language and put something together.
ps: i dont want to say which is better or argue, i want to understand and see if im missing anything.
Standardized frameworks make it easy to adapt and reuse blocks of code. By using a framework such as Zend, Cake, Joomla, etc. you can find repositories of pre-made scripts and components that easily plug into your existing site.
Not only that but frameworks will (in most cases) handle a lot of complicated, repetitive tasks that are standard across most websites. Frameworks will in most cases scaffold CRUD classes against your database automatically and support a clean separation of logic and view.
Frameworks aren't for everyone and I would actually recommend that newcomers to programming or PHP learn the basic syntax and object structure. Doing so will give you a stronger understanding of how your framework behaves and make it easier for you to modify/override the existing structure. Every framework is different, and some are better suited than others for particular tasks. You should do research and testing to see which one fits your needs.
One other benefit that hasn't been mentioned yet is that using a standard framework gives some shared knowledge between developers. If you build a project with your home-grown "framework" and then someone else has to maintain it in the future, they have to totally learn your methods from scratch. However, if you had used CakePHP, and they already have experience with CakePHP, they're going to have a pretty good base to start with. That can make a huge difference in the amount of time it takes them to get comfortable with a new system.
If you want to setup a project quickly, without having to know too much about everything underneath, using one of these frameworks can be very useful. You know, to some extent at least, that they're pretty well built and reliable, and it saves you a lot of time opposed to creating everything yourself. Most of them are also easily extendable to add functionality you might need.
But you're right, it's always a good thing to learn about all the basics. That way it's a lot easier to know what these frameworks exactly do, and more importantly, why and how. And knowing that makes it easier to choose the right framework for you and extend it in a proper and efficient way.
But in the end you'll learn from both approaches, the difference being that with an existing framework you can get start working with a site (almost) right away.
I too use my own home-built framework that took many months to develop, but for every project I still weigh the pros and cons of using a 3rd party framework. The decision usually comes down to the specifics of what I want to achieve. For example, in database-centric applications, I use my own framework because the ORM solutions of most of the well-known frameworks are just downright terrible and inefficient, but for something simple like a Blog, Codeigniter might be my choice (just because I hate Wordpress, which isn't even a framework but I have to mention here how horrible it is).
But keep in mind that while you know the ins and outs of your own framework, if anyone else has to maintain your project later on it will be difficult especially if you don't document. Big frameworks like CakePHP, Kohana, Symfony, etc. are fairly well known and it's easy to find others who have experience with them. Plus if you need help, all you have to do is post on their forums and chances are you'll have a good answer.
Another point is the maintenance of a home-built framework. More often than not this comes second to developing new sites or maintaining old ones, whereas a standard framework has a team of developers behind it. Any security issues in the framework are addressed and patched more rapidly and you can usually just upgrade the framework and keep your code intact.
So, I'm very tempted to rewrite my application using a php framework, as I think it'll make it easier for folks to get involved, as well as improving the design of the app.
CakePHP looks like the best of the PHP web frameworks. Does anyone have any experiences of it? What are the caveats I should consider going from handcoded PHP to using a framework?
Not depending on the framework you'll chose, the first thing you have to know is that :
it'll take some time for you to know it
you'll do crapping things, during that time ^^
so, take into account the fact it'll take some time before you are fully operational :-)
I think those points are the most under-estimated points : using a framework takes not much time... Using it well and to the full extend of its abilities takes... Well, a couple of months, maybe... Which means, when you are at the end of your project you'll say "I should rewrite that with all the stuff I learned while re-writing it the first time" :-D
What it means is : learn what the framework can do, learn how to use it, and use it for a while on small applications, before starting rewriting your big one !
Then, there is probably no "best framework" : one framework may be very well suited for one project, and another one may be best for a second, different project.
I've never worked with CakePHP ; I really like Zend Framework. But that is a personal opinion, and O know people who really like symfony ; they are not wrong : symfony is great -- and I am not wrong either ^^
Still, we sometimes agree on some things ; like the fact that Doctrine (default ORM layer of symfony) is really great stuff, and we tend to use in both symfony and ZF-based projects...
If motivated, you can take a look at many posts on SO, about frameworks... Here are a couple of those :
What PHP framework would you choose for a new application and why?
Is Symfony a good framework to learn?
What, in your mind, is the best PHP MVC framework?
Is Symfony a better choice than Zend for a web development shop (10+) because it is a full stack framework?
Best PHP framework for an experienced PHP developer?
Good luck with those ^^
("Which framework" is a quite pationnating -- and subjective -- question ^^ )
CakePHP has it's good parts but there is no "best" framework. Here's a thread with some clues about what's good in most popular PHP frameworks.
If you never used MVC frameworks before (and Cake is MVC framework) I think you should first familiaze yourself with MVC architecture.
"CakePHP looks like the best of the PHP
web frameworks."
This is subjective. You should compare the pros/cons of other PHP frameworks that will suit your needs.
These posts may help you:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2648/what-php-framework-would-you-choose-for-a-new-application-and-why
Why do I need to use a popular framework?
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/249984/php-framework-decision-analysis-paralysis
FWIW, I used it for a time when I was doing some php development. I found it easy to use, and the rapid development aspect was great, and I would imagine has just gotten better in the last 3 years. There is a ton of help in the irc channel, and the documentation is good. I didn't stick around in PHP long enough to become an expert. However, I was just starting out as a programmer then, and ran into Larry Masters (the creator, aka phpnut) and he was just a good person to talk to about design principles, and an all around nice guy. Then again you don't have to be a super nice guy to write a good web framework (I'm looking at you DHH).
Most of the frameworks "bind" you to them, meaning you have to do things their way. If you want to do something they weren't designed to do, you usually have to hack it. For example, how many PHP frameworks currently support Facebook Connect?
Personally I prefer "frameworks" that you can use only the parts you want. Zend is like this, Doctrine and Propel are ORM that are designed to be used with other code. For example, the Symfony framework can use either.
Finally, I haven't found a popular PHP framework that scales well.
I have used cakephp for a couple of projects. From the moment I learned it I have never written php again without it (unless is fun code in which I want to try some new stuff, or learn other design ideas away from MVC). As mentioned, learning it will take some time. How much time it takes really depends on your background. If you have used another MVC framework for a web scripting language then you will learn it really quick; RoR developers will pick it up within hours/days. If you don't have experience with MVC frameworks then it might take you a little bit, but it will really save you time later on the road (including in that project you start with).
Until today, I still learn new things about CakePHP every time I start a new project on it, although I do dig into a lot of its source code (you definitely don't need to do this, documentation and help boards are more than enough).
I definitely recommend you looking into it. It will save you a lot of time and get your head thinking in a different way (if you are not used to the MVC).
Best of luck.
CakePHP's convention over configuration approach has a few advantages once you learn them:
it helps to keep you code organised and understandable
makes it easier for multiple developers to collaborate on the same application
makes it possible for developers to understand other developers' applications
You have two main options when rewriting a legacy application in CakePHP:
change the database schema to reflect the conventions - resulting in less code
code your models to interface with the legacy database - this book goes into all the details
Either way, once you have done the above, it's pretty much plain sailing, and a good learning experience.