We have pretty big application which has about 8 modules (big modules) written using Zend framework 1 and it has been developed for more than 3 years by couple of developers. Also it has a high traffic everyday. We use Amozon s3, Sphinx, Memcache, and some other third party services as well.
Is it a good idea to migrate it to Zend framework 2 ? Because as we went through the doc briefly, it seems Zend framework 2 has been re-written completely. Therefore we think we won't be able to migrate the application easily rather than re-writing the application according to ZF 2.
Valuable ideas would be highly appreciated.
You are correct that ZF2 is a completely different animal. So different, in fact, that there's no one-size-fits-all migration plan/strategy.
However, I recently did a similar migration. It's a fairly complex line-of-business application originally written over approximately 18 months, with a bunch of varied functionality. The main drivers for the decision were the improvements in the module and event systems.
In our case, it turned into a major point release for the product, which ended up including a bunch of UI changes along with all the plumbing.
Assuming you liked ZF1, the good news is that ZF2 is much better framework (as a framework). The ModuleManager, EventManager, Di, and ServiceManager components (and the general MVC-related stuff) are really great, once you grok them. The bad news is that they're a complete departure from ZF1. So you're at the very least signing up to completely overhaul your dispatch and routing, you'll be saying goodbye to Zend_Registry (ServiceManager/ServiceLocator are a huge improvement).
The other bit of good news is that you can almost certainly keep all the old ZF1-type components around for as long as you need them. So if you're relying on Zend_Cache, Zend_Log, Zend_Mail, etc, a little bit of fiddling with autoloader configs should make that possible.
What I'm suggesting is that if you do take the plunge, consider just migrating to ZF2-as-a-framework first, and worry about ZF2-as-a-component-library later.
If you've stuck with the fat-model/skinny-controller paradigm, it's probably feasible to just replace the Controllers, Front-Controller, Zend_Application stuff in a fairly straight-forward way. Once you get that into production, you can then work on removing dependencies on ZF1 components as time permits. In my case, there wasn't much of that, as things were pretty well factored and wrapped (so, for example, moving from Zend_Cache to Zend\Cache was trivial)
Finally, you should know up-front that View-layer stuff (mostly the helper-related stuff) is different too. If you have a bunch of complicated view-related stuff (partials, custom view-helpers, etc) all over the place, you need to anticipate either rewriting them, or finding a way to use the old Zend_View stuff in ZF2 so you can migrate piecemeal. I didn't really deal with this because our interfaces were fairly simple and we took it as an opportunity to overhaul the UI.
Just my $0.02, but I hope it helps.
There is no quick and easy way to migrate because ZF2 is very different from ZF1.
Related: Step by step migration from Zend Framework 1 to 2
Related
I am interested in learning Zend Framework 2.x, and I've noted that there are many good books written about ZF 1.8, 1.9, etc... however, I haven't come across any that explicitly states it is for ZF2 (except for one, and it was written in German).
In order to learn ZF, I could sit an learn it through the documentation... however, that sounds rather unsavory, despite the fact that it contains the latest information and arguably is the "best" source. I would like to endeavor in the more abundant sources on versions 1.8 or 1.9 as I learn this framework.
How much overlap is there between 1.8/1.9 to 2.x? I know 2.x uses namespaces and many new PHP 5.3.x features, but are there really that many changes between the implementation of these versions that I would be wasting my time trying to learn anything less than 2.0?
I'm aware that even if there is a large amount of compatibility, I would still have to come back and fill in a few "knowledge gaps". I'm just looking for a quick run down of the framework overall.
Thank you for your time.
Zend Framework 2 is very different from ZF1. It's core has been rewritten and the MVC structure has changed quite a bit.
The blog post announcing ZF2 goes into some detail on what has changed and why so I would recommend reading that. If you haven't used ZF1 extensively, you won't know some of the components they are talking about but that's okay. But as it states, ZF2 will look alien to those familiar with ZF1. Part of this is the new MVC structure and there are many new core components not available before including the ModuleManager, ServiceManager, and EventManager which provide better ways of accomplishing tasks that were more abstract to accomplish in ZF1.
Unless you plan on working with ZF1 projects, there isn't much sense in learning it at this point; I'd jump right into learning ZF2 at this point. If you were to learn ZF2 now and come across a ZF1 application down the road, there will be things you run into you aren't familiar with but largely you should be able to understand what's going on and get in and edit the application and learn what you need to know as you go.
Since the libraries provided by ZF1 and ZF2 are able to be used standalone, it would be possible to use some ZF2 classes in ZF1 as long as those classes aren't too tightly coupled to other classes in ZF2. For example, you can use Zend\Crypt from ZF2 standalone quite easily, but trying to use Zend\Form might be a different story since its tied to views, validators, filters and other classes.
As for learning ZF2, like you said there aren't many books around yet since its so new, but there are a lot of resources available for learning it aside from the reference guide.
I'd recommend looking at Getting Started with ZF2, the ZF2 Skeleton App, as well as the Zend Webinars where you can already find some great ZF2 tutorials including a presentation called Getting Started with ZF2 presented by The Zend Framework project lead Matthew Weier O'Phinney. There's also an upcoming webinar about MVC that's worth registering for (its free).
Hope that answers your question!
The "Framework" question has been asked a bunch of times here but having read everything I can find, I can't find the answer to this question.
I'm creating everything from games, to CMS's, social applications, etc. I've used Zend and CodeUgnighter briefly, but when I deliver it, its going to have a bunch of unnecessary folders and it requires anyone who wants to modify my program to know the framework, and they've got a mountain to move if they want to update it to the latest version of the framework.
It just seems to me that frameworks were designed mostly for super large projects where its being designed for one customer, not a released program. It seems like all the big packaged php products out there make their own frameworks (vbulletin, etc).
its going to have a bunch of unnecessary folders
These uncessary folders are stored in one folder and are needed for the framework to work, is that the 10, 20, 200 Mb which is problem? Storage is cheap nowadays, why cares?
it requires anyone who wants to modify
my program to know the framework
You got it! It is an advantage, not an inconvenient. If it doesn't, the guy which will read your code will need to understand your habits, your convention, and they probably are not so common.
If you are able to write consistent code, following any conventions, why not.
But it can also gives your customer a real plus value since he knows that anyone could take back your work if you have to leave for any reasons.
they've got a mountain to move if they want to update it to the latest version of the framework.
In any case upgrading a framework, an application to a new version is most of the time a moutain since in a production environment, you need to test, and test again, to be sure your application is stable.
Most of the framework give releases notes which should let you know about backward compatibility.
It just seems to me that frameworks
were designed mostly for super large
projects.
Zend or Code Igniter fit well for medium sized project, with time you developed framework extensions and you'll be able to save time and bugs on smaller project.
It seems like all the big packaged php
products out there make their own
frameworks (vbulletin, etc).
PHP framework are youngs, most of them are 3/4 years old (Zend, Symfony). A lot of application like Vbulletin are older.
There a lot application based on common framework, but they don't target the same people.
Joomla, Drupal, Wordpress have their own framework (procedural, or object) but they target more the end-user.
However a solution like Magento, which uses Zend Framework, is designed to be extended and very customizable with extensions.
There are many light-weight PHP MVC frameworks, each with varying degrees of features and flexibility. The majority of these are going to be lacking advanced features, but will get the job done.
One that comes to mind is: http://www.kissmvc.com.
Hope that helps :)
You're right that most frameworks are tailored towards 'one size fits it all', meaning they have a lot of stuff that you won't necessarily need on every project. Which sometimes makes them a bit heavyweight. More 'modern' frameworks DO have a strong focus on modularization, but when it comes to the core there are often a lot of inter-dependencies.
One solution: Roll your own framework, dissect code from other frameworks and use parts you like/need. If you can, lean more towards using libraries that focus on specific tasks that you need. E.g. ORM for databases, you might as well use doctrine since it's area of expertise is very focused. Just as an example.
Either way, if you do it right it's a lot of work upfront trying to figure out what you even need. Start with the basics, how do your controllers work, do you need the full implementation of MVC with front controllers, action controllers, maybe page controllers for a CMS? Where can you cut corners, where not? It really depends a lot on what YOU need for your specific product (or product palette).
The other solution, like Serge mentioned, is getting a lightweight framework which really just focuses on the basics. And fill all the holes yourself, or by using 3rd party libraries where they are available.
I personally use a heavily modified version of FLOW3 (currently in alpha development) which uses a lot of cool stuff, but lacks a bit when it comes to using legacy databases (they have their own domain model implementation). Which is what I changed mostly for my version.
Closed. This question is opinion-based. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it can be answered with facts and citations by editing this post.
Closed 9 years ago.
Improve this question
First, let me apologize for Yet Another Framework Question. But I think this is different enough from the usual "What framework should I choose?" to warrant it.
Here's my situation: For the past year I've been using a custom framework. It's been used on everything from small CMS's to larger sites and even a mid sized social network. It's worked great but I now see its limitations. So, I've decided to switch to a 3rd party framework. The simpler frameworks (CI, Kohana, Cake) seem too inflexible from what I've heard - so this led me towards ZF. But, I've also heard that ZF may be too flexible and thus hard to work with. What further complicates this is that I'm looking for a one-size-fits-all solution; I need a setup that works on small projects to very large projects. I am the main developer, but I need my partner to eventually be able to learn the system and help with the less complicated programming tasks.
I've researched Doctrine and I love it. So I'm leaning towards Symfony (with Doctrine) as the main framework with ZF to fill in the gaps. Plus, I need the ability to add my own pieces to this platform parallel to any 3rd party libraries. I hope this will provide me with a solid, extensible platform, as we really can't afford to be switching out frameworks every few projects.
I'm looking for advice from others who have been in the same situation as I am in now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Edit: I've posted my solution below in hopes of helping other people in the same situation
After some research I've decided to go with Symfony. Here are my reasons:
Less verbose than ZF
Seems very customizable due to usage of YAML files (yet I never feel overwhelmed by them)
Autoloading of custom classes doesn't require any extra work like in ZF (albeit it's not hard to set up in ZF)
The developer toolbar is great, and they're adding some nice features to it in ver 1.3
The ability to use pieces from other frameworks (ZF, eZComponents) makes me feel confident that I won't have trouble finding what I need
Comes bundled with Doctrine and is very easy to set up (in fact Doctrine will become the default ORM in ver 1.3)
It seems like there's a much larger community for Symfony. Google "symfony tutorials" versus "zend framework tutorials" and you'll see a massive difference in the number of results
Plenty of documentation: tutorials (the Jobeet tutorial so far is very good), API references, and a more human readable description of the framework and its underlying principles
Yahoo! has used it for a few of their own projects - it's nice to see a Big Name back a framework IMHO
Edit: For the sake of hopefully helping others in the same situation, here are some things I don't like about Symfony:
Does not follow the PEAR naming scheme (ZF does)
Internal classes begin with "sf". This is contrary to the practice of capitalizing the first letter of the class name
Variables and functions are written_like_this, yet class methods are camelCased - this seems sloppy to me
These are all cosmetic issues though; things that bother me because I like to do things my way. I realize that whenever you use third party software you must be willing to make some sacrifices.
ZF is certainly a nice framework, but I feel using Symfony as the primary framework and extending it with pieces of ZF is the best choice for me and my team.
Edit
It's been 2 years since originally posting this, and since it's still getting hits I thought I'd give a quick update. I probably built about 25 - 30 projects using symfony 1.x in the last 2 years, and I'm very happy with how it performed. As a full stack MVC framework, partnered with Doctrine, it handled almost everything I threw at it. And whatever it couldn't handle, it was easy to add my own custom code. In fact, that's what I love most about symfony - how easy it is to extend. I ended up building a bunch of plugins and Doctrine behaviors that greatly reduced development time. And the admin generator tools have been a god-send. I'm still using symfony 1.4 for a few projects here and there, but have decided to mainly focus now on using Symfony2. It's a completely different beast than symfony 1, but I really appreciate its architecture. More importantly, it seems even easier to extend than symfony 1.x. I do miss some of 1.x's features, but that's the sacrafice you have to make when switching frameworks.
I like using ZF because of strong conventions. You can be sure, that everything will be as you expect it. Class names, function names, variable names, directory structure, ... all of it. It really speeds up the development if you stick to it. If you adapt it it's more like looking into your own code, when checking the ZF internals ;)
Let's be honest. ZF is not fast. Not as fast as Nette, CodeIgniter, etc. But the difference is that there is a class for everything. And if there is not, there is a class you can extend or interface you can implement.
All the other frameworks try to gain on the "wow" effect (blog in 30secs, twitter in 2 hours, etc). But when develioping a real life application, you realize, that it's the use at will, flexible and extensive architecture, that you need.
Zend Framework: Huge, Flexible, Modular.
I'd use only if am building a enterprise big ultra system.
But, I'm using Yii Framework and I like it.
Because: Very Fast, Simple, Widgets (easy to reuse component, this is very nice).
Yii it's easer to use, because is not a enterprise framework, and have all Basic features you really need in most cases.
*
EDIT: Now that I nearly understand HOW
to improve the ZendFramework using
your own code (as asked here Adding
3rd Party lib to Zend and here
Using 3rd Party lib within Zend),
I switched back to ZendFramework. I
currently design my application and
each day which I work and test
anything with ZendFramework it gets
more and more familiar and it easily
quickens my developement. My advise:
Use ZendFramework.
*
I have currently the same problem:
My story:
I was using CakePHP until I wanted to expand my project's size.
CakePHP was not as flexible as I wanted it to be.
So i tried to use ZendFramework.
The very first time I read the 'QuickStart' guide, i was a little bit afraid of having that much files for a simple guestbook application.
After a time of 'playing' with the ZendFramework I decided to use ZF as a 3rd party lib in my own custom framework.
The problem is, IF you use Zend's MVC components you might be forced to use 30% of the whole framework, because the MVC components are one of the biggest part of the ZF.
I mean if I use that much of a framework WHY shouldn't you use the rest, too?
After that, I decided to write my COMPLETE custom framework without using ZendFramework as 3rd party lib.
Now I am sitting in front of mountains of papers, full of sketches about code design.
I will keep you up to date about my further decisions.
I honestly think it really depends on your style. There's no end all be all answer to this question.
ZF relies heavily on classic and proven design principles. It's also very extensible, but requires more "configuration" than "convention". I personally do not trust 3rd party code by nature, so I'm a fan of more verbosity, for the sake of being more familiar with the technology I'm working with. But that's just me.
I've also used CakePHP successfully and two other frameworks proprietary to a company I worked for with great success. They're all trying to do similar things, just pick what feels best for you.
I've personally used CakePHP successfully for both large and small projects, however it is often difficult to make it budge the way you want. My reasons for using Cake continue to reside in the fact that the community support is top notch, the security updates are often, and they do not force meta-packages (such as unit testing) upon you (although this is bundled, you can just bin it if you're not interested in using the built in package).
Altogether, it's made a nice system for me over the past few months, however I have heard time and time again that Symphony is fantastic, so you may perhaps be on the money with your first thoughts. With NetBeans support for Symphony in the pipeline, I may too find the need to switch before long.
There are several questions about PHP frameworks, but I'm curious as to which one(s) are used in the commercial world when developing web applications with PHP. At my first web-based job, they didn't have a framework for the PHP codebase. Is this common when dealing with PHP? If not, what frameworks to companies producing a product (either a site that provides a service of some kind or a web-based product that can be purchased) using PHP tend to use?
Is this common when dealing with PHP?
In my experience, unfortunately it is. This is of course a gross generalization, but people who tend to learn PHP as their first programming language don't learn the essentials of maintainable software development and often don't really know how to write good code. I think this is a failing of the PHP community, where historically most learning resources don't emphasize good practices (probably because the authors didn't know any better!). You can of course write good code with PHP, as long as you understand underlying programming principles.
Companies will often start out with a hap-hazzard code base of PHP scripts that get re-used and gradually extended from project to project (often without source control!). The companies that know what they're doing and take it seriously will evolve this into some kind of in-house framework, or I have often found they'll move onto something without the historical crapness of PHP, like Django or Ruby on Rails.
If you're just starting out, there are several decent MVC frameworks that will form a good base for all your developers to learn and use. In no particular order:
CakePHP
CodeIgniter
Zend Framework
There are of course others as well.
That said, as always it depends on the project. Sometimes a framework either won't make sense or will be overkill, othertimes you're better off using a pre-built product (like a CMS) and building extensions to it.
Most frameworks are strongly focused on the presentation layer. Now, "corporate" is of course a rather vague term, but I assume you mean for more typical IT tasks, such as accounting, CRM etc. For these tasks, the presentation layer is a much smaller part of the entire application. Not only does this make said frameworks less important - it actually disqualifies them somewhat, since you don't want the restrictions on your model layer, that they impose.
I think it gets more and more common to use a framework. A few years back most programmers developed their own framework. But the cost to train a new employee for such a framework gets higher and higher. Therefore many companies are moving now to well known frameworks.
I guess that Zend is currently the most used Framework in the corporate environment. One reason is that it does not give you any restrictions on the model layer.
I can not predict the future but I guess that Flow3 will be used in the future too. It is the new Framework behind Typo3. And many Typo3 developers (web designers) who need to write web applications will probably use Flow3 then.
In last two three places I've worked the company had their own (private, built in-house) framework.
According to a PHP Framework Popularity at Work survey by Sitepoint in 2015 (7554 survey participants) the five most used frameworks are
Laravel (22%)
Symfony2 (14%)
Nette (9%)
CodeIgniter (8%)
Yii 2 (7%)
Furthermore survey results indicate, that
5% use a company internal framework,
3% use no framework at all,
3% use a CMS for everything,
1% use a simple MVC framework.
There seem to be continent specific framework preferences: In America and Asia, Laravel seems to be the framework of choice (except for Russia: Yii 2), whereas in Europe you'll find more Symfony2.
(Be aware that this is just referenced from one source -- see links above.)
The only enterprise-level framework I can think is Zend Framework. CakePHP, Code Igniter and others are only focused on RAD development.
Having experience with CI , yiiframework and calephp (not much, really) my opinion is that CI is not flexible as ohter 2, so I do not recommend it on larger-scale projects.
Anyone who disagree, just can try a demo project with cakephp and Yii and he will see how things are easier with them as crud,form validation etc.
Of course all have their disadvantages :)
recently i talked with a CTO of a company, offering a e-lecture solution and we talked about PHP for a while ... we both agreed, it is not the best language for rock solid solutions, but he pointed out the symfony framework, they used just before moving to java ...
also, flow3 mentioned by raffael is quite powerful ... most interesting thing to me is, it brings AOP into PHP ...
greetz
back2dos
You may want to look at www.flow3.org, it's a pretty comprehensive approach to PHP application frameworking and is rapidly approaching its first mainstream Beta release.
I'm not sure if PHP has gone into the enterprise market in the US yet but when i worked in a corporate office the language what they use is Microsoft .NET.
PHP is yet to enter the corporate world IMO. It is popular with the hacker world and maybe micro and small software/web companies.
I am deciding on a framework to try out for PHP. I have narrowed it down to CakePHP and CodeIgniter. I have a couple of questions for any of you who have used or are familiar with both:
I like the fact that CakePHP keeps most of the code outside of the webroot by default. Especially since I may end up using a single framework install for multiple apps. I see CodeIgniter will do that too, but you have to configure it and move some stuff around. Is that workaround secure and reliable, or is it an afterthought hack?
Which (if not both) is easier to upgrade, and maintain over the long term? As new versions of the framework (and PHP itself) come out. I don't want to find my stuff either breaking, or becoming outdated.
Edit:
This is a very old post, but I thought I would update it with what I finally ended up doing, which was to use Kohana.
You should try both frameworks for a week or so, building something trivial (like a blog or wiki) in both, and see which you prefer using. Whatever makes the most sense to you will probably sustain you the longest through upgrades an deprecations.
CakePHP is in a bit of a volatile state right now, still unearthing bugs while pushing to release version 1.2 (which is not backward compatible). I wouldn't suggest building a critical application with it if you need something rock solid right now. If you can wait a month or two for things to settle, then it's probably a moot point.
To address your concerns:
1) Cake and CI do it the same way (iirc). They are equally secure, reliable, and hackish on this front.
2) Everything changes. If you need concrete, perpetual assurance of stability and backward compatibility, roll your own framework. There's not that much to it, and you're guaranteed that nothing changes unless you want it to.
I have deployed multiple applications on CakePHP and it's been a very, very, nice experience. You can't go wrong either way, as both are solid.
is a non-issue.
CodeIgniter has a sponsor behind it, so it's definately the one to choose for the long term. Also, it's faster.
This is a non issue. The app has a couple of lines which says where the core and your application code lies. You just need to change those lines.
You can never anticipate this one.
The state of PHP is a wildcard here. One app (CI) is built to be compatible with PHP4 the other requires PHP5. If you need to deal with the possibilty of a web host only supporting older versions of PHP then you need to go with CO.
Another issue is unit testing. If you require your framework to ship with tests, then CI is not the way to go.
Personally, I feel comfortable with CI because of the corporate backing. The company behind CI is making real profit from their efforts. Though CI is free, their paid product (ExpressionEngine) will eventually live on CI. The same could be said of the Zend Framework and even the birth of Rails (originally built for Basecamp.)
A minor correction to an above comment: both are compatible with PHP4, not just CI. Also, I don't think that having a sponsor makes CI and more or less upgradable or maintainable. Money doesn't solve those problems in the least.
I use CakePHP for a variety of applications and I've been happy with it thus far. 1.2 is a huge improvement over 1.1, and while the library source may change from RC3 to Final, I don't think any code you write will become obsolete. My only niggle is that the Manual isn't as comprehensive as it should be (in my opinion), and I end up in the API quite a bit. The trade-off there is that I now understand the code behind the scenes very well. In any case, I highly recommend it.
On the other hand, I've never played around with CI, so I can't recommend CakePHP over CI. I would take each for a spin and see which one grabs you. Whichever one you choose, study the hell out of its conventions and capabilities. When I started with Cake, I unwittingly wrote a bunch of code to do something Cake did "automagically" by having me set one variable in the controller.
CodeIgniter is very flexible as you would see once you try it. So how your application would be maintainable would fall you your hands.
I have also deployed multiple applications using the same installation. I usually create 2 applications for CMS projects (one for admin, one for the front-end).
To address both of your questions from a CodeIgniter perspective (I don't use Cake):
1) CodeIgniter doesn't keep itself outside the webroot by default, but it can do so with some very simple changes. The first part of my CI tutorial series explains how to do so, along with a walk through of the setup of a new CI instance. Once finished the only part of CI that needs to be in the webroot is a small index.php bootstrap file.
2) I've got an application which I originally developed in CI 1.4.x and I've sucessfully migrated to 1.5.x then 1.6.x. With each new release the CI dev's make available detailed upgrade instructions laying out what needs to be replaced so upgrades are fairly easy.
Jim.