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Ok, it might be a banal question but i'm a little bit confused.
I'm going to develop a project by my own. This means i'll build the HTML template, the PHP scripts, MYSQL query, AJAX calls and CSS styles.
This means no other people will touch any part of the code.
I know templates are good ways to make the entire application easy to be modified. But is that so necessary to do it? Since i'm the only one who got to know what that files and what that page do?
Using common patterns in the development of software products is not only about making it more readable/maintainable but also about making it extensible. The longer your software will be in use, the more features will be requested/desired. Extending one big mess of a software will not work out in this case.
Try a php framework (e.g. Zend Framework / Symfony(1/2)), there are lots of tutorials which allow you an easy start with or without templating engine (I use twig atm, which does a great job!).
If i were you, i wouldn't use templates (do you mean PHP frameworks?) but thats just me.
You don't have to use a template engine - PHP itself can do that just fine.
In general, it's a good idea to "separate concerns" (eg. code which outputs HTML is separate from code which loads data from the database) - it improves the readability and organization of code, making it easier to maintain and faster to develop further.
You should have a look at a framework, like symfony. Most frameworks make use of MVC and hence provide a good separation of your code.
But is that so necessary to do it? Since i'm the only one who got to know what that files and what that page do?
Yes, if you want to keep it maintainable in the long run. If you are not constantly working on the code, you will forget how some things work eventually and then you are happy if you have a proper separation and organization.
I'm starting to architect a quite complex web application. The implementation is probably going to be done in PHP, though if there are impressive reasons to choose a different environment I might be convinced.
I've looked at tools like Symfony and CakePHP. The problem is that it feels like they're relatively low level for a modern Web 2.0 application. They handle the basic things like MVC and scaffolding, but not the more advanced UI elements that I'm looking for. Here are some of my requirements:
Single page architecture. With minor exceptions, there should be no page refresh. All actions are done via ajax, the way it's done in gmail, and to a lesser extent in Facebook.
Ajax layout and widget handling. Not only the application doesn't refresh the page, but the developer can specify the layout and load various widgets into different parts of the page. This is somewhat like iGoogle, but should be better integrated.
Support both on the client side and server side for AJAX widgets. It should be trivial to display the result of a select statement in an AJAX table/array like http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/datatable/. This should also apply to other widgets including
Trees
Menus
Forms
Speaking of forms, there should be easy integration with client side validation
Signup/Authentication/Authorization. Including all the housekeeping things like forgot my password, CAPTCHAs, etc.
There's more, but I think I've given enough details so that you get an idea for what I'm looking for. Basically, I'd like to engineer a modern Web 2.0 app and skip writing, testing, debugging things that most web applications need to do. And yes, I know I can take YUI or jQuery and slap it on top of one of the regular platforms, but then I'd have to write all the glue. Now if there are modules that do this, that would be interesting.
So if you say, take Symfony + modules xyz + jQuery and there's your answer, I'd be happy to hear that.
Finally, in terms of priority, I'm looking for something that's scalable, reliable, well engineered more than something that's easy to learn and deploy.
Since you are looking for all things AJAX, why not try GWT? Its not PHP I agree, but it makes writing AJAX applications easy for developers.
I agree with #Iznogood. What your looking for is not actually a framework but a talent.You can make any framework as "igoogle-ish" as possible if you know what your doing.
I suggest look for a framework with a huge and active community like, CI, Cake and Jquery. Search/ask the community for the specific things you need. Plug it in and Presto!
But I'm afraid you'll have to write some of it.
If you don't mind using Java, there is ZK:
http://www.zkoss.org/
I'd prefer using this over GWT.
In php, you might want to consider Cjax http://cjax.sourceforge.net/.
It is MVC oriented, and has a very generic API, with full support for customization, including the development of plugins (There is a full Plugin API available, including documentation, Plugins can be built in PHP and JavaScript in combination -- see uploadify and validate plugins).
It can access all JavaScript functions, Objects and proprieties, and elements properties and functions from PHP server side, with one line of code.
In Cjax,
you can execute ajax actions, inside controllers (ajax requests) - without a line of JavaScript. this allows you to fully function without refreshing the page. It also allows you to access all Js objects from PHP. A good sample that reflects this is the "recursive ajax request" see that demo. The API can be used on page load, when the page first loads, and within every single ajax request.
Do take a look at the documentation and to the 20+ demos included, and no where you will see a single line of JavaScript. It allows you to manipulate elements, containers, request ajax, submit ajax forms, creates overlays, upload files through ajax, all from the server side. Take a glace at the API Table.
It has support for both, server side ajax, and client side, (see plugins JavaScript Documentation)
It plays nice with jQuery - the validation plugin in jquery is full executable in PHP without a line of JavaScript (see http://cjax.sourceforge.net/examples/plugin_validate.php without any custom line of Jquery inside the framework, it's all plugin's work). Ajax Responses from Jquery also get processed by this framework automatically, so using Jquery's Ajax function API wise, is the same as if you were using the Framework's Plugin's JavaScript Ajax Functions.
And you would just have to take your time learning more about it, because it has quite a few more tools that I am sure you'd find useful.
Currently there are two official releases, the generic release and
there is an official release for CodeIgnater of this framework (and it is the leading ajax option for codeignater) , and works great in conjunction other PHP Frameworks and without them.
Signup/Authentication/Authorization. Including all the housekeeping
things like forgot my password, CAPTCHAs, etc.
This is something that you can build within an ajax controller, the framework itself its meant to be a generic "AJAX" framework, so if you are looking for none ajax features, you will need to build them or integrate other PHP Framework with Cjax (such as Codeignater).
I do not know if this matches all of your criteria, or if you ever will find one. However, I like the Zend Framework myself.
As for the UI and AJAX portions - the server side technology matters little, and it's more about browser-side technology and interaction mechanisms, as well as DOM manipulation.
jQuery is my favorite for that. As for the PHP back-end, I tend to develop it with my own codebase that's grown with me over the years.
But all this takes a lot of practice, knowledge, education, research, reading, and posting questions on StackOverflow.com ;)
I would recommend symfony PHP framework since it has very good support for every feature you mentioned, and it can be easily integrated with Zend Framework - as of version 2.0 coming this year it would be integrated in the package. You can easily set symfony to handle AJAX requests so that it would be perfect transparent layer handling server side.
For me, if you look at THAT heavy AJAX, I would recommend searching for some good JavaScript framework - such as Ext.JS - that would handle all client side functionalities.
For the front-end part of your app, you might want to have a look at SproutCore ( http://www.sproutcore.com/ ).
Building a Web application with SproutCore feels more like configuring components than writing code.
There is no glue code.
On the backend all you have to do is accept and emit JSON.
Depends what sort of level you're looking at. If by 'framework' you mean something like Zend or Symphony, then to be honest all the big ones are about as good as each other. They all have strong points and weak points, but none will really meet your criteria.
But your question implies you're looking for something more than that kind of framework. Maybe you're looking for a full-blown CMS platform like Drupal, Joomla or Wordpress?
In that case, again, you need to consider your needs verses the capabilities and pitfalls of each system.
Drupal, for example, has masses of modules, is very powerful, and easy to write your own modules, but isn't object-oriented and doesn't really do MVC, so if that's your bag then you may find it hard to get on with. Wordpress is much easier to get going quickly but is less flexible once you start getting deeper into it.
But again, they all have strengths and weaknesses. If one was clearly the best, it would be an easy choice. But at the end of day perhaps it's better to have several good quality options to choose from.
Have a look at Ext JS, it is pretty good. If it is a commercial project you are doing it isn't free but not too expensive either. It also has a GWT version if you prefer that.
This is only for the front end but it is not too complicated to use any backend that can emit json.
CakePHP is pretty good
Here's my background:
Decent experience with PHP/MySql.
Beginner's experience with OOP
Why I want to learn Python Django?
I gave in, based on many searches on SO and reading over some of the answers, Python is a great, clean, and structured language to learn. And with the framework Django, it's easier to write codes that are shorter than with PHP
Questions
Can i do everything in Django as in PHP?
Is Django a "big" hit in web development as PHP? I know Python is a
great general-purpose language but I'm
focused on web development and would
like to know how Django ranks in terms
of web development.
With PHP, PHP and Mysql are VERY closely related, is there a close relation between Django and Mysql?
In PHP, you can easily switch between HTML, CSS, PHP all in one script. Does Python offer this type of ease between other languages? Or how do I incorporate HTML, CSS, javascript along with Python?
Can i do everything in Django as in PHP?
Always
Is Django a "big" hit in web development as PHP?
Only time will tell.
With PHP, PHP and Mysql are VERY closely related, is there a close relation between Django and Mysql?
Django supports several RDBMS interfaces. MySQL is popular, so is SQLite and Postgres.
In PHP, you can easily switch between HTML, CSS, PHP all in one script.
That doesn't really apply at all to Django.
Or how do I incorporate HTML, CSS, javascript along with Python?
Actually do the Django tutorial. You'll see how the presentation (via HTML created by templates) and the processing (via Python view functions) fit together. It's not like PHP.
Yes.
It's very hard to tell exactly how popular it is.
MySQL is officially supported.
Yes, but probably not in the way you think. Please read this and also follow the tutorial that S.Lott mentions.
No. You can only do a LOT better.
Awesome, popular. Supported by best hosters like Mediatemple.
No. You can just change 'mysql' to 'postgresql' or 'sqlite' in your settings.py.
NO! Python would never give you the right to mix up everything in one file and make the shittest shit in the world. Templates, static server.
Django is a Model-Template-View framework, great for any applications, from small to huge. PHP works fine only with small apps. Yeah, PHP == Personal Home Page, lol.
P.S. Also you can minify your CSS and JS. And compile to one single file (one js, one css). All with django-assets. And yeah, there's a lot more reusable Django apps (for registration, twi/facebook/openid auth, oembed, other stuff). Just search Bitbucket and Github for "django". No need to reinvent a bicycle, like you do with PHP.
In PHP, you can easily switch between
HTML, CSS, PHP all in one script. Does
Python offer this type of ease between
other languages? Or how do I
incorporate HTML, CSS, javascript
along with Python?
That's one of the reasons why PHP is so easy to learn. And it's also exactly why so many (if not most) PHP projects are such a complete mess. It's what leads to the "spaghetti code" syndrome.
Django is all about complete separation of page design from view logic from URL routing (in fact this is true of most modern MVC or MTV frameworks). So templates are in one place, data structure definitions are in another, and the logic that defines their interaction is in another. It takes a bit of getting used to, but has a huge payoff.
Another thing that takes getting used to for people coming from PHP is that fact that file and foldernames no longer have a direct bearing on the URL. For example in PHP, you might have foldername/filename.php and the URL would be http://example.com/foldername/filename.php. It doesn't work like that in Django. Instead, you define a URL structure in a file (urls.py). In that "map" you define which piece of logic ("view code") will be called when a matching URL is intercepted. Everything is abstracted like that. The result is a much cleaner, more logical site layout and logic.
I've learned CSS and HTML, what should I learn next if my goal is to create templates for Joomla and WordPress? Ajax? PHP? JS?
I poked around and haven't found a question that is alike so I posted this one
Both Joomla and Wordpress are PHP applications, so in order to understand what exactly happens with your templates and in order to override template parts succesfully, it surely is a good idea to learn some basic PHP.
Now Javascript and AJAX are two different pairs of gloves and the terms belong to two different levels of abstraction.
Javascript is a scripting/programming language while AJAX is a technology which makes use of Javascript. Learning Javascript is definitely a MUST if you're in the UI design area. And once you know it, using AJAX (asynchronous javascript communication with the server) scripts will be one of your possibilities.
So, if I were you (but it also depends on the task at hand) I would learn Javascript (jQuery as a library) first and later look into some basic PHP.
From your question the best answer I can give is:
Install Joomla & Wordpress, then start tinkering with the templates
See how the templates are structures what the different template engines are
Modify the default templates to create some changes you can see.
Add jQuery if you so choose, and try some JS/Ajax tutorials (jQuery has plenty of demos)
View the completed changes in your CMS templates.
Otherwise from your question going to read about something, isn't going to help you 'learn' you need to start with baby steps and work your way into more complex examples. Then just exmplore with either technology and see how others are doing it. Always review and correct, and learn from your mistakes.
A little bit of php will surely help you, but if the developer (or the cms) is good you'll never have to edit the php parts (you should see just many foreach, while, if, else loop/condition)
Js (ajax) is used (sometimes, mis-used) to handle some layouts elements, so yes, take a look at jQuery, but remember: never rely just on javascript.
In the past I've written sites in ASP.NET just to get nice reusable templating via master pages (layouts) and user controls (partials). I'm talking about sites that have no more complicated code in them than simple variable substitution in templates - I'm just using it to keep my HTML organized. It's great to be able to define the basic layout of your page in one file, and then just fill in the holes for each individual page, re-using some common bits as user controls.
However, I'd rather not continue using Windows hosting, so I'd like to write static pages in PHP, which runs everywhere. In the past I've written myself a poor-man's user control for PHP that just unpacks an array and includes a template, but that's clunky and still requires me to put PHP includes all over my pages. I feel like Smarty or one of the other big templating languages for PHP is overkill for just organizing some "static" pages.
I've considered just doing the pages in Ruby on Rails because I really like HAML/SASS and the layout/partial model, but having a whole rails app for static content seems silly. But I haven't found anything that seems just right in PHP. Can any PHP gurus recommend anything? I want something more sophisticated than "include" but I don't really need much. That said, something that could give me layouts/partials AND HAML/SASS would be heaven. I've looked at phammable but it doesn't look like it solves the layout/partial problem.
Again, I'm not looking for something as complex as Smarty, and I don't want a full CMS. I just want something that will let me properly modularize the HTML of my site. We're talking one step beyond static HTML here.
Zend_View supports layouts, partials and placeholders. Also checkout a new templating language called Dwoo which is similar to Smarty but also takes some ideas from Django templating. And finally, Calypso which is a Django template language clone for PHP
If your looking for something simple I would recommended PHP Template Inheritance. Then you can continue to code in straight php.
I just want something that will let me
properly modularize the HTML of my
site.
Look at http://code.google.com/p/hoduli/
With that simple tool you'll be able to write like this:
<h:define name="header">
some header contents
</h:define>
...
<h:header />
<h:include file="middle_part.php" />
<h:footer>
some ...
</h:footer>
I would suggest to you to look at Drupal and its Block templating model. I think its just what you need.
Stacey is about what I was looking for in terms of a simple PHP templating library for static sites.
On the Ruby side, there's StaticMatic, which doesn't even require Ruby support on the server since it generates the whole static site. Very nice (especially since it uses HAML) but you can't have any dynamic elements at all.
From what i understand, you don't want a full fledged cms and no overkill templating engine like Smarty. Php is a templating system and if you want to properly modularize it, that's up to you.
But i understand, those php tags between your html doesn't look pretty. (Although using shorttags minimizes this...)
You can always use PEAR Templating system, it's available by default on most php installations.
I would also recommend the CodeIgniter MCV framework because it's really lightweight. You choose which libraries get autoloaded.
About six months ago, I started using the Zend Framework. I got used to working with layouts and partials, and never wanted to go back creating sites without it. But for small sites, ZF is just too bulky. It's overkill to use ZF for a site that could be done in HTML.
Check out EuropaPHP. It's a super lightweight, PHP based layout framework. It's brand new as a framework, but so far, I like it a lot! It allows me to use layouts and doesn't require a huge library and strict rules to achieve the same results.
Maybe you should take a look at some content management systems. Drupal is famous in PHP.
Drupal really is a simple and extensible CMS. There is a learning curve, but it's strengths are that is starts small out of the box and can grow with your needs and the community is pretty tight about the quality of the code that's written (though I personally find that some of the modules get a little two function happy).
They have a simple stripped down version of the Zen theme, that lets you create the HTML you want to use. Time spent learning this CMS is time well spent, especially if PHP is already your native language.